Episode 6: Full Transcript

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Hello and welcome

Tim Beynon: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Charity show, the podcast for Charity Insiders by Charity Insiders. Please give us a follow on your usual podcast platform when you get a chance to do so. And here's what's coming up in episode six.

Piers Townley: I was really, really posh and I felt really kind of out of place and we felt really out of place because they were, and I think they were winding us up a little bit because the actual staff there like, okay, let's have a bit of fun with these Charity representatives. And they were like, just sit on your hands, don't say anything, don't cough. If you need to go to a lubalist, squirt you out. And I think by about halfway through the day we realised that our legs were getting pulled.

Tim Beynon: I was in this room with a load of burly firefighters and guys who probably went into it quite sceptical. And we sat there and the lady was at the front playing some nice gentle music and just sort of talking to us for half an hour. Within about 20 minutes, I'd say three quarters of the room were asleep.

Vicki Beevers: I think, like with the smaller charities, that often the strategy doesn't exist. And I know that I do a lot of pro bono work supporting like small grassroots organisations and they want to do a lot of good and they want to do it quickly and they perhaps don't have the skills or the resources to put that strategy in place.

Piers Townley: That journey, that chug, chug, chug up to 13,000ft is absolutely terrifying. Once you're in there in the air, you can't do anything about it. You're only going to go one way, aren't you?

Busy times and auction house shocker

Tim Beynon: Hello and welcome to episode six of the Charity show with me, Tim Bohnen, head of marketing engagement at the firefighters.

Piers Townley: Charity, and me, Piers Townley, PR manager at the Brain tuner Charity.

Tim Beynon: It's almost school holiday time, Piers. We're almost there. Touching distance to school holidays. Have you got your speedos and sunscreen, perhaps?

Piers Townley: I like to think I have, but weirdly, it's gone ridiculously busy at the Charity for a number of reasons. Usually for us, this is kind of a quieter time. August can sometimes be a bit barren in terms of things going on, but no, there's a certain athletic event happening in Paris, at the end of July, and our high profile supporter Tom Daley, as a diving pair, will be taking part of that. So there's been a bit of comms work and reaching out to Tom. He supports the Charity for many, many years. So we have a little bit of a comms and a social media plan for keeping an eye on how he does. And fingers crossed he goes and brings back gold for team GB. That's obviously happening over, over August. And then we have our summer appeal also online now from the 22nd to the 29 July. This is part of the big give where donations have doubled. This is something that a lot of charities work with. We've been doing this for many years. We have a winter appeal and we have a summer appeal now as well. So that's all kicking off as well. And then alongside that, we've been part of the bank of England Charity auction. Now, the new pound notes that come out with King Charles III's head on them, a, selection of those have been auctioned off recently. And we went along to the 20 pound auction, the 20 pound note, auction at Spinks, which is a really posh auction house, hundreds of year old auction house in Bloomsbury, where the very low serial number ones of those were being auctioned off and chinese buyers were bidding in Hong Kong buyers. Some of the lower serial numbers were going through over seven, 8000 pounds each. And then particularly with the number 18, which is a lucky number for collectors and for chinese collectors as well. So that will raise a huge amount of money for ten charities. We're one of one of those ten. So at the end of July, we find out what that sum is and it just seems to be a cascade of things. So while I've got one eye on the summer holidays, I've got also like get through the next bit. And our comms team and the wider channel is going to get through the next few weeks, which is just so busy, but so, so really good. And then we can relax and cheer on the divers and cheer on Tom Daley as he, as he goes ahead.

Tim Beynon: Yeah, I love the, the, the, auction thing. You were sending me some messages as it was going on saying that you were sat there terrified about scratching your nose in case you accidentally bid thousands of pounds for a 20 pound note.

Piers Townley: It was really, really posh and I felt really kind of out of place. And we felt really out of place because they were, and I think they were winding us up a little bit because the actual staff there were like, okay, let's have a bit of fun with these Charity representatives. And they were like, just sit on your hands, don't say anything, don't cough. If you need to go to a louvre, they'll escort you out. And I think by about halfway through the day, we realised that there were a, you know, our legs were getting pulled, but it was as an inside thing to see a really, really unusual experience and amazing to see all of this being done for, as I say, ten incredible charities.

Tim Beynon: So, yeah, I mean, I mean I never knew that happened but it's what, you know, amazing principle to basically sell money to make money.

Piers Townley: Yes.

Tim Beynon: That's great.

Piers Townley: But you were seeing these bits coming in. It was frenzied at times as well. So obviously this is a glimpse into a world that's beyond my experience that people are after specific serial numbers and notes and coins are huge in that world.

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Piers Townley: A little glimpse into another world.

Tim Beynon: Yeah. My world of bidding doesn't go any further than eBay. That's pretty much me.

Piers Townley: I didn't go to the toilet, I didn't cough. I did sit on my hands, I wasn't moving an inch.

Tim Beynon: Well done. Well done, well done. Yeah, it's been, it's a. Yeah, I think they say every week, don't we? It's a busy time, but it's a funny time I think, for charities this kind of pre summer holidays time and August is a strange month. Like you, the firefighter, chatty. We just launched our summer appeal as well, so that's, that's ongoing at the moment. But August is a strange time because everyone is away. No, charities really plan a great deal for August. So it's a bit of a, bit of a sort of a dead month really, and we sort of find that. But I know from a commerce perspective and a marketing perspective it's a sort of false dawn, if you like, because I know that we come back in September and October, November are absolutely mental. So there's lots going on. I know I've seen the plans. I know there's lots going on so it m feels quieter now, but I don't want to be load into that false sense of security that it's going to be like that for a while because it won't, because I know that come back from summer, it's going to be mad. So there's lots, lots going on there, you know, in the not too distant future. But we've got a fascinating episode coming up. We're going to be talking to Vicky Beavers, chief executive of the sleep Charity and amazing because she's won the strategic leader of the year. So we're going to be talking to her about that and about the work. Great work, of the sleep Charity. That's all coming up in a minute. But on the subject of sleep, piers are you a good sleeper? Do you sleep well?

Piers Townley: No, no, never have done. Always found myself a very light sleeper. Easily woken up, can't get back, now with a new puppy. That has all changed as well. So I'm interested to see the perspective and also the highlight that Vicky is going to bring on the jowti, which I didn't know nothing about. And she's got some statistics there about the amount of people that they support and the practical and campaigning tips they do. It's really a really fascinating thing.

Tim Beynon: It is quite a really important subject, and I know a little bit about it through. Well, personally, I sleep quite well. I've always, always slept quite well, so I've never, never had much an issue with it. But at the firefighters Charity, a lot of firefighters experience quite severe sleep issues as a result of many different things. But shift working impacts sleep on call firefighters who have to sit, at night and, you know, have the pager next to their bed inevitably suffer from poor sleep as a result. And also, working around trauma has an impact, on your sleep as well, understandably. So. A lot of firefighters really suffer with sleep issues, and that leads to poor mental health. The two are very, very closely linked. So we do a lot of work at the firefighters Charity to support firefighters who are suffering with poor sleep. We hold all kinds of workshops and things like that that offer support for people who are experiencing issues when it comes to sleep. And I've sat in on a couple of those. One where, it was basically in a darkened room, I remember, and, it was amazing. It's like a sort of meditations type session. Everyone's lying on the floor. So I was in this room with a load of burly firefighters and, and guys who probably went into it quite sceptical. And we sat there and the lady was at the front playing some nice gentle music and just sort of talking to us for half an hour. Within about 20 minutes, I'd say three quarters of the room were asleep. There's like guys snoring next to me and all this kind of stuff, and I didn't fall asleep, but it was, it was a really incredible experience. and coming out of that, lots of the guys there were saying how, how amazing it was and how, you know, they'll, ah, take those techniques into their own lives going forward. So, yeah, I know a little bit about Steve, so it'll be fascinating to find out more, about that and incredible Charity that Vicki's heading up, so we'll find out a bit more about that. A little bit later on.

News headlines

Okay, it's time again for some news headlines. What's stopped you in your tracks this week, piers?

Piers Townley: It's not so much stopped me in my tracks, but I do think just highlighted the ongoing saga of the Sir Tom Moore or the captain Tom foundation, it's called, and the fallout from all the controversy that's surrounding that. You know, after being set up in 2020, the headlines have been hit. His daughter Hannah and her husband Colin, have only just recently, this month, been disqualified from being Charity trustees for ten years and eight years, respectfully. And it's just, it's put a kind of a dark cloud around such a fantastic amount of fundraising and a fantastic amount of, awareness that was happening during the pandemic. The foundation, you know, he raised 38.9 million way back during the COVID times. But, you know, since his death in 2021, the foundation has just been marred in controversy. But it's just the whole affair just seems sad. It's a sad epitaph for a wonderful life and a wonderful charity. And it just shows, I think, how the fickle nature of opinion is changing when, facts have come out and was there this and was there that. As I say, I'm not going to speculate too much, but, yeah, the whole thing is still making the headlines.

Tim Beynon: It's horrible, isn't it? I agree with you. And I remember the whole nation was so uplifted by his story and what he did and the incredible worldwide support he got. I remember seeing

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Tim Beynon: a shot of a village hall, I think, that was full of cards, full of people sending cards of congratulations, and thanks to him, an amazing, amazing guy, an amazing, amount of money he raised. And that legacy has been tarnished, isn't it? It's just. It's very successful.

Piers Townley: It has. And I think that will carry on as well. If we have any other big events or any big headline arresting situations, will that dense public confidence. Well, has that changed perception in the third sector and charitable foundations? I think the ramifications will eke out as time goes on.

Tim Beynon: Yeah, yeah. Sad one, sad one. I've got an interesting story this week, and it follows on, really, from our episode four guest, Zoe, Anna. So Zoe released her, 2024 Charity Digital Skills report recently, early this month, and gives us, as she said in the episode, and anyone, who wants to listen can listen back on to episode four. and Zoe speaks a bit about it in that episode, but she released this report, and there's lots of fascinating insight in there, and I'd certainly recommend everyone goes to charitydigitalskills dot co dot UK to have a proper read through what is quite a lengthy and detailed report. And it just basically gives an overview of how we as a sector are performing when it comes to digital. It's not just about AI, it's about how our approach to sort of digital transformation as a whole, and how charities are, embracing all those opportunities that present themselves, through digital. It's largely positive, although there are certainly some things to pick out. And just looking at some of the headlines that, Zoe recognises in, the reports, 50% of charities have a digital strategy, which I, actually think in this day and age is quite low. I would have thought that more than many more.

Piers Townley: It's surprising, isn't it, that one?

Tim Beynon: Yeah, I was quite surprised by that. 61% of charities are currently using AI in their day to day work or operations. Now, that surprised me because I'm actually surprised that it's as much as that, given the fact that it's still such an emerging technology. But I'm not quite sure what using AI actually means. Does that mean people are just trying it with a little bit of chat GPT or are they going into much more detail? Have a read of the report and the detail, is certainly going to be in there, but, yeah. So lots of charities using AI, which is encouraging, 72% of small charities are struggling digitally due to squeezed finances. Now, that really interested me because I think it kind of shows that there's a bit of a digital divide there between big and small charities, and that's, probably inevitable given the fact that money comes into play. and the more you have, the more you're likely to invest and have at your disposal. But it kind of makes you wonder how small charities can ever sort of keep pace and compete, with big charities when it comes to digital. So hopefully there's something that small charities could learn there, or certainly Zoe, I remember when we talked to her, was very keen to emphasise, besides, there's tools and things that small charities can use that don't cost the earth, and that, there's certainly ways to embrace things like AI without having to spend huge amounts of money. So hopefully there's lessons there, but I think it's a fantastic report. So congratulations to Zoe, on a great launch as well. I sat in on the webinar, which was fascinating, and I highly recommend everybody take some time to go to the website. We'll put the links in the show notes as well, and, has a good read through of the Charity Digital Skills Report 2024 strategy.

Introducing Vicki Beevers - The Sleep Charity

It's one of those buzzwords that seemingly flies around most third sector offices. The roadmap to the future, the vision, mission and direction, the glossy document that gets put together every three years and then put on a shelf, never to be looked at again. We're all told that we need to think and work strategically, that decisions need to be driven by strategy, that projects can only be given the green light if they aligned to our strategy, that we must live and breathe our strategy. But what does all that mean in real terms? And what does good strategy and a good strategic leader actually look like? Well, Vicky Beavers, chief executive of the sleep Charity, should know. She won the Charity comms Strategic Leader of the year award for her approach to leading the Charity that she founded. So Piers and I sat down with Vicky to find out how she helps her employees and teams to realise the full potential of the sleep Charity and how they all together help their service users to get a good night's sleep. Vicki, great to see you. Thank you for joining us on the show today. Got to ask you, first of all, how are you and did you sleep well last night?

Vicki Beevers: I'm very, very well, thank you. And, yeah, I had a pretty decent night's sleep, I've got to say.

Tim Beynon: Excellent. Good stuff. What about you, Pierce? Did you sleep well last night?

Piers Townley: No, not last night, but I'm going to blame some foxes in the garden, okay. They make a hell of a racket.

Tim Beynon: Fair enough. That does, that does happen occasionally.

Vicki's background

Vicky, can you tell us a little bit about your background, perhaps first off, just give us a little bit of a flavour of where you've come from and how you've ended up at, the sleep Charity. Yeah.

Vicki Beevers: So my background is actually in teaching. So I qualified as a teacher a long time ago now and I taught in special schools for many years. I taught

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Vicki Beevers: children who've got quite challenging behaviours as well. And, I sort of fell into sleep, really, by, well, by not getting any. That's where it started. So my eldest son did not sleep well and, I expected it right at the beginning when he was a baby. But this continued for many years and I found that there was very little support available or even very little concern about it, despite the fact it had a huge impact on me. It had a huge impact on him. So I started to research sleep and I use the word research now. I didn't realise that's what I was doing. I started to obsess about sleep, to look for ways to improve it. And I sort of came across using a behavioural approach to sleep. It worked, which was miraculous. And I wanted to help other people and I had the idea, I'll set up a charity, thinking, you set up a charity, people give you money. And I was so naive. So that was back in 2012, and.

Tim Beynon: A long way you've come ever since then. as everyone we talked to always says, setting up a charity is never easy. There's lots of red tape and lots of dramas along the way and tough times to go through. So I imagine it's been a challenge along the way.

Strategic leader of the year award

But along that journey, you've also picked up the strategic leader of the year award, which we noticed and thought, we've got to talk to Vicky about. That sounds fantastic. What does that mean to you personally and also to the organisation?

Vicki Beevers: Yeah. So for me personally, well, I was absolutely astounded. shocked. I think sometimes you get imposter syndrome a little bit as well, you know, when you're leading a small charity, particularly, and when it's a charity that you've founded and set up. So I, you know, when I found out I was in the final, I looked at all the finalists and so, you know, they're proper strategic leaders and there's me, it was kind of making lots of mistakes along the way and trying to learn from it. So, for me, yeah, it was a shock, but it was. It's incredible because to have your hard work acknowledged publicly like that, it's a good boost, you know, for your confidence, for your morale, but also for the organisation, you know, for the sleep Charity. We know that things are really tough out there at the moment for charities and, it's these sort of awards that could give funders confidence that we're going to spend their money wisely. There is a really well thought out strategy behind the work that we're doing. So it's brilliant on both levels.

Tim Beynon: We all get imposter syndrome. Don't worry about that. It all happens to us all.

Piers Townley: Definitely, definitely does. Well, I suppose getting that award, though, is like a badge of integrity for what you're doing and what the Charity does. Vicky, could you summarise the sleep charities strategy? What lies at the heart of it for supporting people with sleep issues?

Vicki Beevers: Yeah. So in terms of our strategy, you know, we start by looking at what is our overall vision. And, like, the vision that I've always had is that, we need to empower people with sleep education, because if we know about sleep, we can then recognise why we might not be sleeping so well and we can recognise what we need to put into place so that we can improve our sleep. So that's where it all sort of comes from. And then around there we've got a strategy which sort of looks at things from different levels. So it's very much around having a tiered approach to intervention and recognising that people are individuals. And so first of all, when we look at our beneficiaries, it's how will they access the support? And that's in many different ways. You know, you've got the beneficiaries who prefer written text, you've got beneficiaries who prefer podcasts, you've got those who actually want to speak to. So it's developing our strategy so that it can support as many people as possible from that respect. And then also it's developing our strategy so that as a small charity, we can reach as many people as possible by training other people. So we do a lot of train the trainer work so that once we do get some funding, we can develop a training offering that can then be sold out. So it's sustainable, but also it educates the professionals out there that are, actually meeting people on a daily basis who are saying, I'm not sleeping, what can I do about it? and then another element of the strategy is around the research. So it sounds very strange to say this, but we still don't know all that much about sleep, even though it's so important. So there's lots more research that needs to be done. and we work with, a wide range of academic institutions to, sort of work, you know, around that. And that's fascinating and it also helps to underpin our reading space. And then the final sort of component of the strategy is around campaigning. And again,

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Vicki Beevers: it sounds crazy to say it, but sleep is not given, you know, the same sort of footing as things like health, you know, diet, mental well being. Yeah, actually, if we don't get enough of it, we die, which is like not a very cheery message, but it's true, you know, it can actually kill you, sleep deprivation can kill you. And, it has all sorts of dreadful effects on the mind, the body. So we do a lot of campaigning as well to try to raise awareness nationally. You know, got a manifesto out at the moment. We're back in the House of Commons in September, so we tried to come from it from different angles, really.

Piers Townley: It's true though, Vicky, that, you know, smaller charities and the very small charities having a clear strategy is vital. It's the only way they're going to survive and raise their voices up. But, you know, the larger charities, the big giant ones, also need a clear strategy.

Dangers of not having a clear strategy

What do you think of the dangers of, not having a clear strategy to a charity?

Vicki Beevers: Yeah, I think there are so many dangers because you can drift away from your mission quite easily. So it can be tempting, especially when there's little funding coming out, that you can jump on funding and try to make your sort of projects, your service delivery fit funding, which actually isn't about your priority. So I think it's really important that you've got a strategy, you've got a clear idea of what you're aiming at, and what you're focusing on, so that you can really focus on that and not let yourselves drift. Having said that, I think there's going to be some flexibility. So although we've got sort of a three year strategic plan, it may be that actually sometimes we start to do things that, were down in year three because it may be that, that things have changed within the news or there's been new research, so it's not sort of sticking to it so rigidly that you miss really important opportunities that come along as well. So something that flexible approach is important too.

Tim Beynon: Yeah, there's so much to consider, isn't there?

What is strategic drift?

But obviously strategy is something that, it's a buzzword that fills the sector and every Charity says, oh, we're working to our strategy, we got to do, we've, got a three year plan, we've got a five year plan. But where do you think some charities fall down when it comes to trustee? Were there any sort of fundamental things you mentioned strategic drift and people not sticking to their plans? Is that at, the heart of where charities fall down or are there other things that perhaps charities are just making fundamental mistakes when it comes to strategy?

Vicki Beevers: I think with the smaller charities that often the strategy doesn't exist. And I know that I do a lot of pro bono work supporting small grassroots organisations and they want to do a lot of good and they want to do it quickly and they perhaps don't have the skills or the resources to put that strategy in place. So I, think, you know, a lot of it is about being under resourced, but actually it's got to be a priority because it's important that everyone's working to do the same thing and I think it's probably around communication as well. So it's important that everybody knows what's been worked towards, that everyone has an input into it so that there's some ownership of the strategy that, the team, whether that's teams of volunteers, trustees, whether it's, you know, employees have had an input into the strategy, so it belongs to us all. And we've got a team meeting next week and, I've just been printing out, our strategic aims again. And what we do is we review them, so we break them down into the business plan so that you can see the flow of the work so it's meaningful. And I aggregate everything throughout the financial year so we can see how we're progressing towards different elements of the strategy. So it's really quick and easy. You can see it's red. We need to work on that or consider if it should stay in the strategy this year. It's green, it's done, ambers, and stuff that's ongoing. So I think it's. Having systems in place is really important as well. And it doesn't have to be complex. Simple, because we've got enough complex work to do in the Charity sector right now.

Tim Beynon: Yeah, there's always lots of complex stuff.

How do you get your staff and your teams to live by your strategy

Tell me as well, how do you get your staff and your teams to live by the strategy as well? And by that, I suppose, I mean it's quite easy, isn't it, for a Charity to publish a strategy document at the beginning of a three year period or a five year period and say, here's our strategy, let's go and work towards it. But how do you actually ensure that your teams are embracing that in their everyday work and that they're living in? It's not just something that gets looked at once and put in a drawer or pinned up on a notice board and forgotten about. How do you make sure that teams live and breathe it every day?

Vicki Beevers: That's a great question. I think it's around the values as well that underpin the strategy. So recapping on the values and we're going to go through a period where we're going to do some more work on that at, sleep Charity, because we probably need to refresh things a little bit. We've got a lot of new board members in as well, so we need to look at are our values still current, which we do through the board meetings, but also

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Vicki Beevers: through team meetings, and how are we displaying these? And then when we think about the work that we're doing, linking it back into the values as well. So where does this fall and also our behaviours? I think behaviour is so important and having a positive workplace culture and it's okay putting that we've got these values on documents, but it's like having to live and breathe it and reminding people, these are my values. And actually, if we're working on that project with that company, do they align with our values? Is there a mismatch? And if there is, should we really be doing these things? So it's not just thinking about the charitable objects that we've got to consider, it's also thinking about the values and our own integrity as an organisation. And I think referencing them a lot in conversation, this doesn't align with our values, it's not the way that we behave is important.

Tim Beynon: It's fascinating about how obviously culture is so important. It's such a part of strategy, isn't it? The living and breathing that culture and organisational culture, just as. Just as important as the actual strategic direction.

Vicki Beevers: Yeah, I was just going to say something about teamwork, then realise I just drunk out of a mug that says the boss that was bought for me by one of the team. It wasn't a self made purchase. I also think that it is part of the team building that's so key. So, we have a couple of days in year where we really invest in that and we get the team together because we are scattered about across the country now. So it's important that when we do come together, we spend some real quality time looking at the strategy, which is what we're going to be doing next week, but also that we spend some quality time getting to know each other better and having some fun and building those relationships of trust. I think that's key and I think it's harder since people have been working from home.

Piers Townley: Yes, I'm sure you could touch on that, Vicky, because there are certain big stumbling blocks that can throw a Charity strategy off course. And obviously Covid was one of them. A huge blow, a huge blow to teamwork, to the culture. So how would you go about, or have you maintained the ability to be agile in your strategy and your approach to what you did?

Vicki Beevers: Yeah, I think Covid, completely wrecked m my strategy at that point, which was to really rely on the training to bring in the funding. And at that point, we were delivering face to face training, mainly, to NHS staff, it's got to be said. And at the time, it seemed a pretty solid thing to be doing because that was growing and, the income was growing and even with hindsight, I couldn't have predicted that Covid would have occurred and that would have been wiped out overnight. So that was where the quick thinking had to come in and having to change and move the strategy around so that we could then look at digital, the digital strategy, really? And how could we continue, to bring in that income stream, but do it in a very, very different way? So that's a bit about the COVID and it was a steep learning curve strategy because it taught me a lot about sort of the different income streams and not putting our legs into one basket and making sure that money was coming in from a range of different places, if at all possible. Bobby, what was the second part? Because I've gone off on Covid now, because it just brought a terrible memory back of me weeping over my, laptop.

Piers Townley: I think, do you know what? We've all been there. It was about the stumbling blocks. It was about the big events or even the small events that can very subtly or very dramatically throw the strategy off course. So you have to be agile, maybe as a smaller charity as well, much more agile than some of the bigger ones. How do you go about building that agility, building that resilience in your approach to being strategic and approach to what you do?

Vicki Beevers: Yeah, I think for me as well, it links to the relationship with the board very strongly. So, you know, we've got an amazing chair and we've got a very strong relationship, between myself and her. And we've got a range, really, of skilled trustees that we can draw on now, which is something that's built over time. Because I think going back to the early days, I was just begging anybody to be a trustee because nobody wants to be particularly a trustee of a new organisation that, you know, everyone's time limited. But certainly the board allowed me that agility and that sounding space and that critical friend to take ideas to it. And I think that's key. And I think the other thing that's really important is for leaders within charities to have other leaders that they can speak to, to share concerns with, to share ideas with and to challenge your thinking, because it's quite easy to get stuck into a rut with your thinking and not to see things from different perspectives. It's like having that helicopter sort of view and sometimes we're so involved with our own organisations that we can't see alternative ideas. I think other, charity leaders

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Vicki Beevers: are a good source of support, around that agile thinking as well. For me personally, I think that touches.

What qualities do you think are necessary to be a strategic leader in charity

Piers Townley: Onto what I was going to ask you next, Vicky. One of those qualities, obviously, you've got the mug there that says the boss. You have won strategic leading of the year. But modesty aside, what qualities do you think are necessary to be a strategic leader in the third sector, in the Charity sector?

Vicki Beevers: I think resilience has got to be right up there. Most definitely. It is such a tricky job. I think there's got to be determination, there's got to be hard work. I also think, you know, we're talking about sort of coming up with new ideas and creative thinking. You know, I always say people, talk about thinking out the box. I don't even have a box. That's where my thinking is, you know, and some of the ideas that I come up with are absolutely awful, but some are, you know, really good and it's. Having creative ideas is important too. But I think it also depends who you've got within your team. So it may be that, you know, in one team it's really important for a leader to have qualities that are, very much around, managing, you know, staff, managing volunteers. It may be. I think my role's a little bit different because a lot of the sleep work I actually do as well. So I'm like writing training materials, you know, sort of very hands on it in terms, in terms of that element, m so therefore we've got, you know, other members of the staff who might look after like the HR side of things, etcetera. But I think it is about, you know, resilience is a massive one right now because it's tough job and you've got to be willing to get stuck in and do every sort of, you know, aspect and element of it because that's just how it is.

Piers Townley: And obviously those qualities you want to cascade down to your senior leadership team, your SLT and your managers. So how do you go about doing that on a day to day basis?

Vicki Beevers: So we have silk provisions, which I think are incredibly important. And I know nothing, all organisations do this, but I think it's really good practise to have a, real in depth meetup on a regular basis whereby we look at things like, you know, current work priorities, what's been occurring, like in the previous few weeks, what's going to be occurring in the next few weeks, and professionally, you know, where are you? Where do you want to be? Is there any training that we can put in? Is there any shadowing opportunities that we can put in? But also very important, like how are you as a human being, how are you as a person? Because we're very good in a sector at looking after people, but we're not always great at looking after ourselves and our teams and we're soaking up a lot of stress. We're taking a much higher workload than we've probably ever taken right now. And it's important that team members are looked after as well so that they want to stay in the sector and that we can develop the skills appropriately. So, you know, we've done all sorts of different things like invested in things like media training for people, public speaking training. Our head of sleeps very into the outdoors. So we've invested in him being a forest school leader, for example, to look at that as an avenue that he can develop his skills around, which will also support our work within the Charity.

Tim Beynon: Fantastic, fantastic. Love the fact that there's outdoors, that skills from outside of the workplace benefiting people in the workplace, really, really important.

Strategy and change

Of course, strategy also, especially inevitably brings change. But change for any organisation, not just in this third sector, sometimes can be hard. Change might mean having to pay it back, having to do things differently and that could ultimately potentially lead to restructures and redundancies that dreaded r words. But what do you think the qualities are of a leader if that is required and if that is necessary for the long term sustainability of an organisation, how should you, or would you lead through that kind of turbulence?

Vicki Beevers: Yeah, change is always a tricky one because it brings with it unrest, it brings with it confusion. And I think it can be the smallest of changes as well. That can cause disruptions and sometimes real positive changes, that can be resisting by people because it doesn't feel familiar and safe. And I think it goes back to communication. So I'm a big believer in being honest about things. So if things, you know, if we're in tricky times, you know, making that clear, that right now it's not great financially, but this is what we're doing to put things in place, to try to improve things. Having that open dialogue and the open doors policy where people can come and ask questions and there's nothing considered to be a stupid question. If it's a question that's burning, then it needs to be asked because otherwise what occurs is people come

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Vicki Beevers: up with their own ideas about what may be happening behind the scenes or whatever. And again that can cause a lot of unrest. So I believe strongly in communicating what's happening. All of our team do an email on a Friday which goes around to everybody about what they've been doing in the week and what they're going to be doing next week, but also very importantly what we're doing at the weekends, you know, just a little bit of information to share so that hopefully there's never any, you know, terrible surprises. you know, they're aware of what the situation always is, what the pressures are, and I think importantly, what's being done to mitigate it, because what you don't want as a member of staff is concerns that actually you're being told there's an issue, but you're not being told what's done. And I think it's important to ask them as well. Have you got any ideas? How would you, like us to handle this? And at times we brought in consultants as well, to do, away days so that we can get everyone's points of view. And we also do sort of a, an anonymous staff survey so that people can give the feedback as well. And, yeah, you know, you can see when there's points of change, you can feel that unrest, no matter how hard you try to mitigate against it, because it's normal, it's part of who we are to sort of get confused, concerned and resist it to a degree. And it is difficult to lead through change. But I always call everything an exciting challenge and that's what, leading through changes, which is probably really irritating, actually, I've been told it is, but it's just how I view things, because otherwise you can very quickly become overwhelmed by challenges. But actually, it's an exciting challenge and let's see what we can do about this.

Tim Beynon: Yeah, I agree. I think that transparency in communication is really important, especially from senior leaders. within an organisation, the last thing you want to be seen as, as a senior leadership team is that you're sat in some high tower somewhere, divorced from everyone working at the coalface and dictating what's happening to them. So that transparency and openness is really vital, isn't it?

Vicki Beevers: Yeah. Yeah, it is. It goes back to the values and, you know, we want people to know that they can speak openly, that there's a culture of respect. And also, I think appreciation is really important as well. So, you know, I've had people say to me, oh, you know, I saw you won an award. Oh, I don't need an award for my work. And it's like, actually, it's really nice to be appreciated. And it's not about the awards, it's about the thank yous that we give each other as a team. You know, appreciating each other's skills as a team is really important, too.

Tim Beynon: Sure.

Inspiration

And as a successful leader, who do you look up to? Who inspires you. Who motivates you?

Vicki Beevers: Oh, so many different people. I mean, going back, it was a wonderful lady called Lizzie Jenkins who used to work for scope, the disability Charity. And Lizzie gave me a job as a project manager quite a few years ago now. And she was just inspirational. She was, you know, really on the ball with the strategy and, the figures and. But she was also such a beautifully kind person and she could bring out the best in people because she believed in people and she saw the skills and really honed them and it gave me a lot of confidence. So I always, I always see Lizzie as being my inspiration. But, you know, there's so many, I look very much at the Charity sector. There's so many Charity leaders that I know and really admire for lots of different reasons. But, yeah, Lizzie's the one that always, I always come back to. So I'm forever grateful for Lizzie and her support.

Piers Townley: That's amazing you're able to name checker.

Do you worry about whether you're doing a good job as charity leader?

Vicky, my next question, you've kind of already answered it because it was about measuring whether you and your SLT are doing a good job. And you said you constantly get that feedback, so I just wanted to know. I mean, it's the cliche, isn't it? It's lonely at the top. Do you worry about whether you're doing a good job and whether your direction and the way your strategy is set up for the charity? Do you have those doubts as a CEO, as a leader?

Vicki Beevers: Yeah, absolutely. You want to do the very best you can, for the organisation. And I think I feel an enormous sense of responsibility, not just for the Charity, but also for, you know, all the people that we employ. This is their livelihoods as well. So, you know, it can be a worry at times. And again, this is where I think the board comes in as the people you can go to and say, I'm not sure if this is working as well as it could and am I missing something here? And I suspect that if I ever got to the point where I didn't show that level of concern, I would probably be in the wrong role because I think it's a healthy level. So it's not that I'm all, like, worried about it, thankfully, because that would be a terrible effort. But, you know, I

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Vicki Beevers: would say I've got a healthy concern because you need to have. And I think that little, you know, is something that I'm missing. You know, is there something that we could do better? that's something that is definitely there and I think when I see that in other Charity leaders, because, you know, I've been on the board with a lot of, different sort of charities. I think that's a really important quality as well, because if you've got somebody going in going, this is what we're doing, and I'm absolutely right. That's when things tend to not be absolutely right because they're not listening to, the input of other people, which is what makes your strategy, you know, so powerful.

Tim Beynon: I think there's no room for arrogance, is there, in leadership? It's not going to work for anybody. My last question, Vicky, thank you, and thank you so much for your time today. It's been fantastic, been great to speak to you. But what are those sort of golden nuggets of advice that you would give anyone listening to this who, is maybe starting out on a leadership journey, in whatever level that might be or might be targeting. Their ambition might be to lead a charity at some someday, or they might be starting off in terms of setting up a charity in the same way that you do. What would be the sort of golden nuggets of advice you'd pass on to them?

Vicki Beevers: I think getting a mentor is really important, so somebody that you can speak to from outside the organisation where you could have that, like, coaching relationship. So we often don't get that, and it's something that I strongly believe in, which is why we have the supervision, having the space to be able to talk through your ideas and also to learn from other people. So, you know, the reason that I like, done a lot of pro bono work is because I've made some huge mistakes along the way and, I've learned an awful lot. And I believe that, that learning needs to go to some good use. And if I could help another, you know, person who's, who's setting up to prevent them from going through those things, then that's important. M and I've had mentoring myself from people who have been much more experienced than me. I found it really valuable. And, I mean, I remember, you know, they've told me things about fundraising and when we get to a certain point, this will start to happen. I thought that won't happen. And they were right, it has. So learn from the experience that's around in the sector and people are so generous with the time. That's the wonderful thing about the voluntary sector, huh? You know, people are so incredibly generous and get connected, find information out. You know, I do a lot of networking. I'm co chair of the small Charity advisory panel. That's running now nationally. So the reason I do that is because I am passionate about small charities and actually they need advocating for and they do such important work. But it's also the opportunities it gives me to meet people and to get even more support from the network. You can't put a price tag on that.

Tim Beynon: Fantastic. Vicky, thank you very much. Your time. We really appreciate it. Enjoy the rest of your day and get a good night's sleep tonight.

Vicki Beevers: You're welcome. You're welcome. Thank you. And sleep well.

Superstars of the week

Piers Townley: In each episode of the Charity show, we want to celebrate our sector superstars, those incredible people working, volunteering and fundraising across our sector. And you can nominate your deserving colleagues, volunteers or fundraisers. Just email us at, thecharityshowpodmail uh.com or get in touch through the links in the show notes. You can even send us a voice message that we can play out in the next episode. So who's your superstar this week, Tim?

Tim Beynon: well, I'm gonna be, I'm gonna give the firefighters Charity a bit of plug. A bit of a plug this week. Why not? And I wanted to talk about this amazing, amazing challenge for two reasons. So basically there's a firefighter, a lady called Pip Waite, based at swaddling coat fire station in Derbyshire, and she's taking on, an ultra marathon on a treadmill for us. So she's running 50 kilometres on a treadmill for us. That in itself is amazing. I know, I've done a bit of treadmill running. I find it incredibly boring. I'm much more of an outdoor runner than I am a treadmill runner. But she's doing it all on a treadmill. But not only that, she's doing the whole thing while watching non stop fireman Sam the entire duration. So this is, you know, this is probably seven, eight, 9 hours worth of running, watching nothing but fireman Sam on a big screen in front of her. So I don't know why she feels she needs to combine the two, but it's a hell of a challenge. So I really take my hat off to her for that. so the 26 year old, who, is an old cool firefighter. So she also means that she doesn't, she's not a full time firefighter. She also has another job. She works at, fight station kickboxing gym in church Gresley. She's, been training for this feat since November. I don't know whether training means, you know, doing a bit of running and then doing a little bit of fireman easing herself into the fireman, Sam, I don't know, but, yeah, that's an incredible challenge. So good on. Good on you. Pip, I wish you the very, very best of luck with that. And, yeah, I don't envy. You're gonna get that theme tune stuck in your head, aren't you? It's gonna.

Piers Townley: That's gonna be the year one.

Tim Beynon: Oh, man. So, yeah, good luck, Pip. Looking forward to finding out how it goes. What about you, piers?

Piers Townley: I think if you. If you're plugging the firefighters Charity, Tim, then

00:45:00

Piers Townley: I'm gonna plug the Brain Tumour Charity as well. M. And it's generally beyond the Brain Tumour Charity as well. It's for anyone who fancies jumping out of a plane this summer, it seems to be all the rage. I've had the lucky chance to have done a skydive a couple of times, but to all the skydivers out of there, I just think you are superstars because it is a literal leap of faith and it is absolutely terrifying as well. We've got three skydivers that I want to shout out to this week. Two of them are part of our young ambassador programme. So that's young people who are affected by Brain Tumour diagnosis and support all work and campaign for us. So it's a Lucy Swatton and an Owen Sutton. They're both doing a skydive for us. And then we have another supporter, Rhiannon Roland, who's going to be jumping 13,000 foot out of a plane in memory of a lovely little eight year old girl called Emily Smith, or EMS, as Rhiannon calls her, who sadly died from a, Brain Tumour last August, 2022, actually. And Rhiannon says on her site that she knows she knew EMS very well. Being her child mind, she got to see the caring, talented and confident little girl on a daily basis, along with her lovely brother Harry. And EMS is so terribly missed, she writes, and a huge Emily sized hole will always be left in her heart. So, in memory of EMS, 13,000 foot up, Rhiannon will be jumping out of a plane. But, yeah, it takes guts. It is an incredible thing to do, and I know, and we come across so many other fundraisers that are doing this. So whichever charity you're doing it for, anyone throwing themselves out of a plane this summer, we salute you.

Tim Beynon: Oh, absolutely. I can't believe you've done it twice. I didn't know that. Pierce, you've done it. You've done it twice. Amazing.

Piers Townley: I'm scared of heights. But, don't ask me about the psychology of that. I think it's because it's an unreal distance. But that journey, that chug, chug, chug up to 13,000ft is absolutely terrifying. Once you're in there in the air, you can't do anything about it. You're only going to go one way, aren't you?

Tim Beynon: Well, I've never done it, but my dad is a parachute or was a parachute instructor, so I've probably never done it because I've seen, I think he's broken his legs more times than I can count, so.

Get involved in the show

Piers Townley: So that's it for this episode. Huge thanks to Vicky for waking us all up with some fascinating insights into strategy. What have we got coming up over the next few weeks, Tim?

Tim Beynon: Well, there's plenty to keep people amused over the summer holes. So if you're sitting by the pool, why not tune in to find out how the sector is faring under the new government, as well as why charities should be turning to the corporate world for marketing expertise. And remember, you can tell us what you think of our guests or suggest someone for us to speak to by getting in touch with the show. You could also send us a voice message. The links to everything are in the show notes.

Piers Townley: Absolutely. And don't forget, there are loads of ways you can get involved in future episodes too. Share your news, tell us about your latest innovations, events or campaigns, or tell us what you'd like to cover.

Tim Beynon: That's right, you can get in touch through the links in the show notes, as I just said, or email us@thecharityshowpodmail.com and don't forget, we always want to hear about your superstars too. So nominate someone outstanding for a shout out.

Piers Townley: And in the meantime, please follow us on your usual podcast platform and leave us a review, both of which will help other charity folks to find the.

Tim Beynon: Show it for another episode. Take care and we'll see you soon.

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