Episode 5: Full Transcript

 

LINKS TO ALL PODCAST PLATFORMS

Coming up

Tim Beynon: Hello and welcome to the Charity show, the podcast for Charity Insiders by Charity insiders. If you haven't done so already, please give us a follow on the usual podcast platform. And here's what's coming up in episode five. So we want to give charities across the, uk a free shout out, or opportunity for them to shout out for themselves. Give them 30 seconds of free airtime.

Piers Townley: Deep into festival season, I'm always fascinated by all the charities associated with, this summer season. You've got the likes of the big three that are quite heavily tied together for Glastonbury. Such a powerful platform, a powerful way to raise awareness and funds for these charities.

Speaker C: We need to change the perceptions out, there of fundraising. It is a proper job, it is a career, and, you know, fundraisers just do the most amazing things. Fundraisers are helping to cure cancer, they're helping to house the home with the helping to make sure that young children can play sports in their communities. These things wouldn't happen without fundraisers, apparently.

Tim Beynon: According to a new report, Sarah, and David are the most common names of people who work in the Charity sector. So, how many Sarahs and how many Davids have we got listening to this, to us this week? That's what I'd like to know.

Welcome to Episode 5

Hello and welcome to episode five of the Charity show, with me, Tim Boynan, head of marketing engagement at the firefighters.

Piers Townley: Charity, and me, Pierce Townley, pr manager at the Brain Tumour Charity.

Tim Beynon: How are you doing, piers? What's been going on? It's election week. As we record this, we're coming up to the election. Is it a busy time for you? Has it impacted you in the Charity at all?

Piers Townley: Yeah, it has in so much as we've had to get all our ducks in a row for whatever comes next, whatever the landscape looks like. We've analysed all the main parties manifestos as the last two weeks have gone on, and just dissected down and put all of that information out on our website and what it means to healthcare and the NHS and the implications for anyone facing a Brain Tumour diagnosis from my own charity. And we've also made plans to push out our policies and our campaigns, as a lot of charities are doing now, for whatever new government comes into play. We've recently launched our open letter for a national Brain Tumour strategy, for example, on our policy lines. That was way back in March, and we're going to be using this call for this strategy as a cornerstone for all our policy work in the coming months. So big shout out to our policy team, to Cameron, to Steph, Liam and Claire. They're all our policy superstars in the last few weeks.

Tim Beynon: Excellent. Busy time for them, I imagine. It's a funny one, isn't it? It doesn't affect, some charities more than others. It hasn't really affected us at the firefighters Charity. I suppose we're entirely apolitical. So really, the whole general election doesn't really affect us a huge deal, at all. It affects the fire rescue services to a degree, but it doesn't necessarily affect the firefighters charities. So luckily it's not really impacted my day to day a great deal, other than the fact that I get fed up watching the news. There's too much news, too much political campaigning and too many political stunts. I'm not a fan of political stunts. It seems to me that politicians are either playing football or doing bungee jumps or one thing or another screams general election nonsense to me. So it's nice to. I'm looking forward to it all being over.

Piers Townley: Yeah. The Lib Dems have ran just a stunt campaign from start to finish, haven't we? I suppose, you know, they're the things you remember, you know, Ed Davey doing various thieves that require him jumping out of things or falling into things.

Tim Beynon: Yeah, I don't know. I don't know who advises them on those kind of things, but it just seems. I don't see how. I don't see how doing that makes them relatable. Anyway. Anyway, that's a whole nother podcast, I think. Probably not us. It's been. Yeah, it's been. In terms of. In terms of me, what's been going on for me this last couple of weeks. Interesting. Following our chat with Zoe last week, I've been having a bit of a play around with some of. Some AI tools over the last couple of weeks, and I think I've been pinging you a couple of messages. It is fascinating, what AI can do. It turns the two of us into Wallace and gromit characters. just put a prompt in and up it came.

Piers Townley: I actually really like that. I thought that was quite flattering, actually. All those wrinkles and all those crows feet and all the lines of stress completely smoothed out. I'm quite happy being a plaster mated world.

Tim Beynon: I think my son said I look like a farmer. I don't know why. Why then? Why? I'm a part. Anyway, there you go. I look like a farmer, apparently, according to.

Speaker C: According to him.

Tim Beynon: But, yeah, so really interesting. Also, just playing around with some of these some of the generative tools that Zoe was talking about in terms of, using it for copy and things like that. and it is interesting and it is really fascinating to see what it can do. So I'm really keen to explore a bit more of that at the Charity. So I've kind of started to talk to my colleagues about what we can do to explore AI a bit more across the Charity as well. So really keen to hear from anybody else who maybe listen to Zoe, and has been inspired to try some tools, for themselves as well. Let us know how you're getting on and, share some of those insights, share some of those tools that you are using and how you're getting on with them. That'd be really good to hear, but also I must give a shout out.

Free airtime for charities

I mentioned something that we've talked about and that we'd like to offer charities across the UK. We want to offer anybody listening, any Charity listening, the opportunity, to get a bit of free airtime, essentially. We know that everyone's advertising budgets are pretty tight at the moment. It's not easy

00:05:00

to make, that, that money stretch. So we want to give charities across the, UK a, free shout out or opportunity for them to shout out for themselves, give them 30 seconds of free airtime on the Charity show and give them the opportunity to basically introduce their charity, tell us about themselves, promote their website, ask for donations or support, or share a call to action, whatever they want to do. If you can sum it up in 30 seconds or less, ping us a voice message. You might want to write yourself a script, ping us a voice message. The links to which in the show notes, we'll add some music to it, we'll let us make it sound good, then, we'll play it out in the show. So we'll put some information on the socials about that as well. And that's to keep an eye out for that. But really, really looking forward to seeing if we can, get help some charities by giving them a little bit of free airtime. Why not off camera from the show.

On the show

Piers Townley: Viz well, we've got a great one this time round. A recent fundraising report published by the Charities AIDS foundation highlighted the UK's record donations to charities over the last year or so. So we're going to be finding out about the psyche of the average british donor and how the fundraising landscape is changing as we speak to Katie Doherty, chief executive of the Chartered Institute of Fundraising. What do you make of the fundraising landscape at the moment, Tim?

Tim Beynon: Fundraising? Well, you and I are comms guys, so we're not fundraisers, really. we sort of talk a lot about it and write a lot about it, perhaps, but, I wouldn't call myself a fundraiser, but I do keep, an eye on what my fundraising colleagues are doing and obviously needs to get involved in helping them to chat about what they're doing. And m I suppose personally, for me, you know, talking to Katie was really interesting, and I hope people get a lot from, from the interview that they listen to shortly. But, you know, I think one of the things that strikes me that is still fundamentally at the heart of a lot of fundraising is people's individual motivations to want to give. and fundraising and giving is a very personal thing, and it affects people in a lot of different ways. Whatever inspires or motivates or emotionally touches you, and triggers you to want to give or support a charity is a really powerful concept, and I think that's something that you can't underestimate the importance of. That really jumped out to me. Lots of things that fascinated me, and I'd like us to talk about more on the show when, it comes to fundraising, things like micro donations. Now this is a really interesting thing, and I think you sent me a news article about this a little while ago, piers, that whenever you go to a shop or you go to a supermarket or you go to the petrol station and you pay for whatever it is you're paying, you're increasingly asked whether you'd like to top up just a few pennies. Would you like to top up your, payment by three or four p to help fund this charity? And that's really proving really popular and it's becoming much more common, as well. So I think that whole area around my credit donations, asking people to give pennies rather than pounds, I think is a really interesting area. So I'm really keen to see if we can get someone onto the show to talk about that going forward as well. And another area that fascinates me is gaming. Now, I'm not really a gamer myself. I play occasionally, I say play. I lose occasionally to my son, who's very good at, most games. But using gaming as a tool to fundraise is another really fascinating subject. So very keen. Anyone listening to this who uses gaming, in their charity as a way to generate funds, get in touch, let us know, about it, come onto the show and talk about it, and really good to find out more. So, yeah, lots to talk about. Fascinating area. And Katie, I'm sure, is going to give us a fascinating insight.

Piers Townley: Yeah, it's really interesting you talk about that, especially the micro donations. I guess that's the digital, the electronic version of the old collection tin on the checkout of your local store that you had years and years ago. But yeah, increasingly vast amounts of money are being generated and vast opportunities as well. The old penny here, the odd two pence there is a guild trip and, you know, but it works and it's easy to do. Very, very easy to do, actually, local fast food chains that I go to regularly. I'm not going to name them, but can you top up one pence? I mean, you'd have to be a cold hearted person to stand there and say, I'm not going to top up by one pence. So, yeah, they do work. and very much, like you as well, I'm really interested in the gaming and trying to make that working as a fundraising tool. We've launched gaming campaigns at the brainstorm of Charity before, but we've used our supporters and our, community, the experts, the gamers, if you like, to do that. So giving that, empowering them, because they're the experts, after all. So streaming and gaming and seeing if we can make that work as an idea and as a campaign, really, really interesting stuff. Fascinated by my m personally. And I think this is something we could talk about in the podcast future. episode is like the rise of the extreme fundraising as well. It's kind of, why run a marathon when you can max it up a bit? Why can you do an ultra marathon? Why can you climb one british mountain peak? Well, go and climb three british mountain peaks. It's kind of maxing out the fundraising and those, those very extreme events that, we're seeing a lot more of. We have some of our high profile supporters, the likes of rugby legend Lewis Moody, taking on 36 hours biking challenges or trekking off to the South Pole. It's no longer just doing a tough mud or similar event. It's like, what can they do that's

00:10:00

Piers Townley: beyond that to grab people? So, yeah, interesting development.

Tim Beynon: Just jumping in there a second biz, on, that one. I think that's a really interesting subject because I also want to be interested to hear what charities think about the risk element of that. Because we all want people to fundraise for us, we want people to do amazing things for us, but we want people to be safe at the same time and not put themselves at risk. But more and more, you see people wanting to take on these extreme challenges, doing really things that push their bodies and themselves to their absolute limits, placing themselves at risk. So how do charities feel about that sort of, that sort of new risk element to fundraising, I wonder?

Piers Townley: Yeah, that's really interesting because, I mean, like most charities, we have, you know, we have crisis comms plans in place for things like the London Marathon, because obviously, as a child, you've got a huge duty of care to your supporters and the fundraisers taking part. You're right, it's an area that's very interesting and something that you have to be absolutely across the board with.

News headlines

Tim Beynon: Rob, time again for some news headlines. What have you spotted over the last couple of weeks, piers?

Piers Townley: Well, we're deep into festival season. I'm always fascinated by all the charities associated with, this summer season. You've got the likes of the big three that are quite heavily tied together for Glastonbury. It's Oxfam, it's water Adams, Greenpeace, but the likes of Reading and Leeds and Latitude Festival and the huge raft of others that highlight and support so many organisations, from UK grassroots causes to major international aid projects such as child.org and ActionAid, it's all really interesting. It's such a powerful platform, a powerful way to raise awareness and funds for these charities. And the sums can be huge. I was reading, a report the other day that said in the end of 2023, Glastonbury raised over 3.7 million to charitable causes. In addition to that, 1 million was given to the Charity, to Oxfam's crowdfunded Dec appeal, which raised that amount of money for the Syria Turkey earthquake response that happened that year in 2023. And they also did an online auction as well that raised over 100,000 pounds for the Trussell Trust. So it's going to be interesting to see the amounts that are gathered for this year's festivals and the raft of them that are going on. You could be the cynic in you with all the cash that's being made by the acts and the organisers themselves, but the millions raised are, vital funds in the bank for so many organisations.

Tim Beynon: Yeah, I completely agree. Like you. Not that it was muddy this year. It was lovely, wasn't it? Lovely weather, but didn't have to bother even thinking about the weather. You stayed in and watched it on the telly. But, yeah, but you could also say those huge acts, the Coldplays and the Dua Lipas of the world, they attract the revenue, they attract the people to buy the tickets, they attract sponsors, they attract tv revenue and all that kind of stuff. and that is ultimately what helps the funds, the charitable work, as well. So swings and roundabouts on that front, I think, but incredible, incredible work. And pretty unsung, really. You don't hear a great deal about the charitable work that Glastonbury does or that comes out of Glastonbury or any of the festivals, really. So, yeah, maybe we had a place to give that all a shout out, piers. Maybe that's what we should do.

Piers Townley: Yeah. Keep your eyes peeled. Maybe there'll be the Charity show festival at some point in the future.

Tim Beynon: Yeah, well, I don't know. Maybe, maybe, possibly. You never know. So, yeah, I spotted some interesting couple of interesting stories this week, actually. Lovely story about a nine year old chap called Tony, Hudgel. So, Tony, is a double amputee. And very sadly, he missed, the king's garden party that he was, due to attend because he was stuck in a traffic jam back in May. So he was unable to attend that event. But Queen Camilla found out about this, heard about this, and this week he has attended a private gathering with her instead, which has been fantastic. So he, Yeah, as I said, he was stuck on. Stuck on the m 20 and unable to get to Buckingham palace, but he ended up having tea with the queen at her, London residence this week, which is great. And also at that same event, he was awarded his very deserving British Empire medal. His Bem medal. Now, Tony's story is an incredible one. He had both his legs amputated after he was abused as a baby. And, he became the youngest ever recipient of a Bem, which is fantastic. He lost both his legs due to injuries that were inflicted by his. His birth parents. And both, of them were jailed for ten years in 2018. But Tony, being the amazing lad that he is, went on to found the Tony Hudgel foundation, which has raised more than 1.7 million pounds for Charity. And his mission, he says, is to enhance the lives of children who have been affected by physical, emotional, or, psychological abuse. And he raises funds, and the foundation that he runs raises funds to support the Evelina children's hospital. So what an incredible lad. Ah, and, incredibly deserving, of some time, with royalty, I think. So I thought that was a lovely story, of somebody who's been through a huge amount, but very deserving of his Bem medal, which is fantastic. And of tea with the queen. So, yeah, lovely story.

Piers Townley: That was a fantastic story. It also was on my radar, Tim as well, because the only other invited guest who was there with Tony was eleven year old Lila O'Donovan. And Lila is living with a, a rare Brain Tumour and has

00:15:00

Piers Townley: her and her family have been in touch with the Brain Tumour Charity over the years and she's just such an inspirational girl and the family have been great supporters of the work that we do. And like Tony, lila couldn't be there to the original invite because she was in hospital having treatment. So wonderful to be that she was able to make this very special day. So for, Lila and for Tony. Yeah, fantastic story.

Tim Beynon: Brilliant. Good on both of them. Amazing.

Sarahs and Davids!

I've got one other story for us this week, and this is an interesting one. I'm really fascinated to hear from people. Listening, listening in. Apparently. According to a new report, sarah and David are the most common names of people who work in the Charity sector. So how many Sarahs and how many Davids have we got listening to this to us this week? That's what I'd like to know. So the research was compiled by employee share scheme specialist vested and, they basically found that 10% of employees in charities are called Sarah or just under ten. By 10%, 9.73% are named David. So there's every chance if you work in a charity, you work with a Sarah and or David. So is that true? Tell us comment in the comments on our social. Let us know, are you a Sarah or David? Do you know a Sarah or a David, in the Charity sector? Or do you have other people who with other names that are common in your charity? I'm actually keen to know.

Piers Townley: I've actually got some breaking news there, Tim, because, Kath Howard over at the Brain Tumour Charity did some in depth research and she's come up that actually only 1.6% of the Brain Tumour charities is called David or Sarah. So there's some facts there. So we need to either increase that percentage or let's see what else we can do.

Tim Beynon: Wow. You need to recruit some more Sarahs and Davids to, But it's always good to buck the trend. That's a good thing. Yeah.

Piers Townley: Maybe we should change our names just for one episode.

Introducing Katie Docherty, Chief Exec, CIOF

Tim Beynon: The UK remains one of the most philanthropic and generous nations in the world. And last year we gave a record 13.9 billion pounds to charity. However, despite topping the charts for generosity, there remains a wealth of challenges and disparities in regard to the fundraising landscape in which we all work. Some things don't change the poorest parts of the country still give proportionally more than the wealthiest, for example. But some things are changing. The number of people giving regularly is in decline, while the cost of living crisis is impacting the amounts and ways in which people choose to give. The factors that influence people's giving also seemingly change with age. And it was reported recently, young people now pay more attention to what social media influencers say than what charities are trying to tell them directly. Fundraising, meanwhile, is breaking new ground as technology is changing the way we set about raising money for the causes we all care about. So with the fundraising landscape seemingly shifting in somewhat seismic waves, we spoke to Katie Doherty, chief executive of the Chartered Institute of Fundraising, to find out more.

Today's fundraising landscape

Katie, great to see you. Thank you for joining us on the Charity show. It's lovely to have you on as a guest today. We talk a lot on this show about the fact that we work in challenging times at the moment. The third sector is going through some challenging times in terms of all kinds of things, but fundraising primarily being one of the toughest, of, those, things that we're working our way through at the moment. Could you give us a quick overview? First off, perhaps around some of those, around the fundraising landscape as a whole? What's it like at the moment for the third sector? What kind of landscape are we working in?

Speaker C: Well, I mean, the good news to start with is that this remains a country filled with a lot of generous people, and the british people are continuing to give to charity. Nearly three out of four british adults did something charitable last year, whether that was donating money, volunteering or sponsoring somebody. And what that has meant for this country is that 13.9 billion pounds was donated by the british public, which is just amazing. That stopped from 10 billion before the pandemic. But less people are giving, so there's a challenge in there. So less people are giving, but those who are giving are giving more. And so whilst there's more money, the future is challenging. And there is no doubt out there that the world is a difficult place for charities who are trying to meet ever increasing needs all the time.

Tim Beynon: I saw that figure of 13.9 billion pounds, it blew me away. It's an incredible sum, and it puts us right at the top of the table in terms of being one of those most, philanthropic of countries, in the world, which is fantastic. But it goes against all that we've heard about the cost of living crisis, having an impact on fundraising, and being negatively impacting charities. Has that been overplayed, do you think? Or actually, would that figure have been greater had it not been for the cost of living crisis?

Speaker C: Well, yes, the figure would have been greater if the number of people who used to donate were still donating. So

00:20:00

Speaker C: to give you an idea of what that looks like in terms of numbers, before the pandemic, 65% of people made some form of donation to a charity, and that's dropped to 58%, which is a lot of people, when you think about how many adults there are in this country. So it's offset by the fact that those people are giving more, but there are less of them. And so that is a concern for charities looking ahead to the future, because there are so many charities under so much pressure, because inflation means that the amount of money they're getting in doesn't go as far. The pressure on services is so much higher, and therefore the need for the british public to carry on being generous is so important. But if that decline in the number of people donating continues, that's definitely a concern.

Dip in committed giving

Tim Beynon: Do you think as well, are people giving differently? I saw in that report about the number of committed donors, I think that figure of 65% down to 58% was, from the way I read it is that was committed donors, people giving regularly on a monthly basis, that's dipped. Do you think because of the cost of living crisis, that maybe people are changing the way they give, and perhaps not committing so much, but giving more on a one off basis, perhaps? Are you seeing that as a pattern?

Speaker C: So there's a lot of different reasons in there as to why this is happening. So, yes, people are donating in a different way. So technology is having a huge impact on that. As we use cashless, people are giving via QR codes and credit cards and online in a way that they never did before. And that number continues to grow every year by huge amounts. But also, and I think this is where, when we were looking at why are the numbers of people donating dropping? Most people give in response to a direct ask. All the research says that that's why people give. Somebody asks them and connects with them on a cause, but there are less ways for charities to make those asks now. So restrictions in data protection and things like that mean that it's more difficult to make that ask of donors. And in return, that means that less people are donating. So there's a lot of different reasons in there, but these are all reasons that charities need to pay really close attention to in terms of thinking about what they're asking, who they're asking, and making sure that they're connecting with their donors in the best way.

Tim Beynon: Piers, I know you've got a question coming up, but I just wanted to jump in there from the chat, from the firefighter Charity perspective, I think we could definitely relate to that. I think during the cost of living crisis especially, it almost felt wrong to directly ask all the time in the way that we might have done before, that cost of living crisis. Is that something as well? Have charities asked less as well? I know, understandable. Totally understand what you mean about it getting harder for charities to ask due to regulations and everything else. But do you actually think that charities might be asking less because they're aware of the pressures on their supporter base?

Speaker C: I think that charities care deeply about their donors and are being very careful not to put pressure onto people. But at the same time, it's really important that charities really consider, you know, the supporters really consider the supporter journey and the care process for their donors and make sure that they're asking the right people the right things and communicating their impacts directly to their supporters if they want to maximise those gifts.

Piers Townley: That's really interesting, Katie, that you say that, because it's the right people, but it's also at the right time and in the right way. All of these things seem to be bubbling under the surface much more now than ever before.

Geographic disparities

It was also fascinating to read in the report the disparity demographically in british donors with some of the UK's poorest areas, given the most, you know, as a percentage, for example, of household income. Can you shed any light on this? Is it that, wealthy people a little bit tighter than those less well off, or is that too much of a broad stroke?

Speaker C: This isn't anything new. You know, I've been involved in fundraising for, two and a bit decades now, and it's always been the case that those, the poorest areas in this country have always been the most generous. And you can see that, you know, in the reports, I think Sheffield, Harlem is the most generous part of the UK, followed by west Belfast, and there's areas all across Scotland and England and Wales with similar demographics. And why is that? Is that just. That's, probably cultural people? Maybe they feel more connected to

00:25:00

Speaker C: their communities, but it doesn't mean that other people aren't generous, but certainly those, communities that are challenged are the most generous, and that's always been the case.

Piers Townley: It's really interesting, isn't it, that spotlight. Sorry.

Fundraising and community spirit

Going onto communities and community spirit and community psyche. I mean, we're seeing a lot of that in some of the campaigning that's going on at the moment with the election that is trying to tap into the psyche of the average donor. Have you got any insights into the kind of psychology of that, Katie, what are the key motivators in people in regard giving?

Speaker C: So fundamentally, giving is good for everybody. It's good for the donor, it's good for the Charity, it's good for the cause and it's good for the community. And there's tonnes of research that shows that giving and being charitable connects us, it connects us with our local communities and it helps build a society that just fundamentally has a stronger social fabric. And conversely, some of the research suggests that in areas where we are less community connected, that is, the areas on which there's less charitable giving. So I think the two things are connected, but fundamentally, giving is good for everyone.

Piers Townley: I think most people in the third sector who work in a Charity kind of know this in their DNA, don't they? They know that it's the psychological, sociological, economic factors in the whole myriad of things.

Influences on giving

What sort of things would you say can change or dramatically change the way people give and. And, the way communities change?

Speaker C: So, I mean, on a personal level, you know, impact of the cost of living, fallout from the pandemic, Brexit, these are all things that will affect, on an individual level for charities. What they need to do is everything is so data driven now. You know, they have to be really connected and understand who their supporters are and what it is that motivates them and what they can do to connect with their supporters. Quarters to drive. Thank you.

Piers Townley: and I know my wider fundraising team will be linking pen and paper when it comes to this, but, I mean, there are loads of cliches around when it comes to fundraising and giving. Are there? Do you think there is a north south divide? Can it be as little bit as black and white as that?

Speaker C: It's not a north south divide. If you think back to what I was talking before, about the poorest areas in the country giving most, and, you know, the research shows that whether you're in Glasgow or Sheffield or Belfast, your people are giving. And across the country, Britain remains such a generous country and people still continue to give.

Piers Townley: Well, I'm sure Tim would probably back me up on this, but certainly from the Brain Tumour Charity, we've seen people's resilience and people's wanting to give and support us, even through the COVID and the cost of living and beyond is still very, very strong, even when you know, all these pressures are still out there.

Tim Beynon: Yeah, I know. Absolutely right. I think it is interesting, but we have seen, a change in the way people give, I think, and, I think what I was touching on earlier, perhaps people slightly less inclined to give on a regular, committed monthly basis, because for them, they see the pressure on all their monthly bills, all the direct debits that go out of your bank account every, month. And so therefore, they might be less, more reluctant, stick a tenor in there every week for their charity, or every month for their charity. But we do see more events taking place now, and especially now that Covid restrictions are no longer in place, people are doing more events for us and those kind of challenge events and those kind of fundraising activities. So there's more of that going on, more one off giving, but perhaps a decline in that regular committed giving. So I think that's definitely a pattern that we're seeing at the channel, but it sounds catchy, like that's something that's universal and that's sort of going on.

Young people and digital giving

Just one other thing I'm really keen to, explore. I saw another report on this recently as well, is, young people, as a group and as an audience. however, the report I read, basically highlighted how much of an issue it is for charities to connect with young people. and it's almost like a lost generation in regards to giving and in regards to just connecting with charities. Is that something that you're seeing? Are charities struggling to connect with young people? and what are some of the influences are important to bear in mind when it comes to young people?

Speaker C: Are they struggling to connect with young people? I'm not sure, but I think that charities are going to have to really change the way in which they do those connections. And this is where we see the increase in digital giving and technology that, has to be embraced by charities if they want to continue to connect with the new generation coming forwards. And I think that

00:30:00

Speaker C: these emerging technologies do give opportunities for the future, but charities really have to embrace that and engage with it. I think that young people will still give, but I think that what their expectations are from charities are different, and they are much more questioning and much more. They want to be connected with the cause. They care deeply, and they want to give to causes that they care about.

Tim Beynon: One of the interesting things I read in that report was the fact that the kind of people who influence young people to give aren't celebrities, and it's not really the charities themselves, it's social media. Influencers, those are the people who they listen to. So if you're not somebody on TikTok, some successful TikToker or YouTuber sells you to go and donate, then they're likely to go and do it. Listen to them much more than they will listen to their parents or they, listen to a celebrity or they listen to a charity message. So is that something you've seen or, is the start? Reality here is that we all got to get a TikTok account and we all got to jump on TikTok and tack up these social media influences.

Speaker C: Yeah, we just might. I mean, but there's some. This is really exciting stuff. You know, gaming is probably going to be the way that people give, in the next decades and. Yeah, TikTok, social influencers, we have to listen to our kids. You know, we have to be in tune and understand the way that they want to contribute to society. And just because they want to do it differently to how we might have done it doesn't make it a bad.

Tim Beynon: Thing, but we've got to keep up with them. That's the thing. So you've got. You've got, you know, it's the. The people who've been around for a little while, like me and peers. You've got to educate ourselves into what young people are doing. I know my kids love gaming, but I don't know anything about how you fundraise through gaming. So that's, again, a great example of how we've got to learn to keep.

Piers Townley: Up, and then maybe that comes back. Also Tim and Katie as well. We've got our social media team. at my charity, I've got some people who just. TikTok is in their blood. I mean, it's largely witchcraft to what I do, but that generation of the new and digital savvy is what some of the charities need to embrace, definitely in their comms team. I think we're seeing that being rolled out in the fundraising team. So that actually TikTok is. Or TikTok or those social media platforms are second nature, actually, to a Charity person.

Speaker C: Yeah. And I mean, like, 15 years ago, I remember having battles in the Charity I worked at the time just to get Facebook in the conversation. And now you're talking about your social media team. These teams didn't exist 15 years ago. Imagine what teams will exist 15 years from now. So I think as long as we're not scared of change and as long as we're willing to learn and embrace it, then we can get those opportunities for our causes and our charities in different ways to reach out and connect with people.

Tim Beynon: AI could be doing it all for us. Just press a button and there it goes. Sorts out everything for us. There might not be any jobs.

Speaker C: I think, as long as we remember AI needs to be a copilot and not an autopilot, and it still needs a human being in there. But again, that's another great opportunity, I think. I think we should be less worried about change and challenges and embrace the opportunities that are out there for us.

Tim Beynon: Yeah, absolutely. And, just on a similar vein to that, really, in terms of the fact that there's so much going on in the world competing for people's attention, not just social media, but the media as a whole and all that's going on there. Every major business has, some kind of corporate social responsibility messaging going on, as well. So there's lots of competing messaging going on, and all of that's competing for pounds in people's pockets. What would your advice be to charities in terms of how they can rise above the noise and to make sure they stand out? amongst all of that, I think.

Speaker C: They have to be absolutely focused on their purpose. So each Charity will be trying to fix a problem, and they need to be laser focused about what that is, and that is what will cut through. That is what will stand out, and that's what will connect with their supporters.

Tim Beynon: Yeah, absolutely. Being clearly defined on your direction, really important. and for those sort of working in fundraising at the moment, whether that's an individual giving community, fundraising, trusts, legacies, whatever, are you seeing any specific sort of trends? are charities focusing their energies in any one area in particular at the moment, or is there some areas that.

Speaker C: Are booming and some areas that aren't perhaps, really interesting? And this is a bit of a theme of this conversation. Digital, fundraising remains really strong, and all these emerging technologies mean that there's all sorts of things to learn and try, and opportunities in memory and legacy giving continues to increase every single year. And fundraising events, you mentioned that, a few minutes ago, they're making a real comeback after the pandemic.

00:35:00

Speaker C: And lotteries and things like that are continuing to attract donors, but we're also seeing lots of new people coming into the fundraising sector, which is a great thing, but that means we have to teach the basics, and we have to make sure that people are fundraising to the best and most excellent standards that they can. We have to keep opening that door to bring more and more new people into the sector so that we can diversify and strengthen our profession.

Tim Beynon: Really interesting. You mentioned in memory and legacy there is that doing well because of work that took place years ago, because obviously it's not a cash cow in the fact that you put a bit of effort in now and it generates income straight away. Thats a long burn. That is, in terms of, when you reap the benefits of that, does that mean that the work that was done years back is actually now bearing fruit?

Speaker C: Absolutely. And theres so much research into this area, and part of the Chartered Institute fundraising, we hostremember Charity who specifically focus on legacy giving. And, it is years and years of work. But that doesnt mean that if charities dont currently have a big legacy programme, that they should write themselves off, but they need to invest in it and they need to have a long term plan. But it is making an enormous impact on so many charities. The fact that they put that investment in, in years previous.

Piers Townley: So thats an important consideration when fundraising teams are expanding, when fundraising teams are increasing in the pressures and the workloads that they have, Katie, part of their armoury of, of it.

Importance of retaining and looking after fundraisers

What about the workload and the wellbeing for fundraisers at the moment? I know that the Chartered Institute of Fundraising has been involved in a study recently about all this, and it wasn't particularly, good news.

Speaker C: It's tough out there, you know, it's tough out there. And fundraisers had a challenging time during the pandemic. Many were furloughed, and many of those that weren't furloughed carried a lot of weight on their shoulders to bring in money to support their charities through such a difficult time. And then we came back after the pandemic and there we were, sat in the cost of living crisis. And then there's been other huge challenges. Ukraine, Gaza, challenges for the world. And fundraisers are those who are trying to bring in that extra money to try and meet these challenges for their causes that they care deeply about. And so wellbeing for fundraisers is really important and it is affecting, many fundraisers. Some recent research suggested that one in ten fundraisers might leave the fundraising profession entirely. And, ah, a significant other number were looking to change jobs. And so charities really need to pay attention to not just the wellbeing of their fundraisers, but making sure that theyre investing in their fundraisers, because much as we'd love it, money doesn't actually go on cheese and it has to be worked really hard for.

Piers Townley: Yes, I guess the downside of charities being at, the forefront of Wusai for the last few years and getting kick started again after Covid. The downside is that the pressures are going to be on the fundraisers to bring in the incomes and the funds for this. How can charities address this? How could charities support fundraisers and fundraising teams?

Speaker C: So I think there are a number of things that are really important. Charities need to invest in fundraising and fundraisers. So they need budgets to be able to raise the funds and they need investment as people in their training and professional development, good fundraisers bring in the most money. So if charities invest in their fundraisers, they'll see the return and then, like everybody else, good culture, good mental health supports, and being a good place to work is really, really important for fundraisers.

Tim Beynon: Yeah, it's a tough job, isn't it? Because ultimately it's a little bit like a finance job. It's so often it's target driven and the pressure's on if you don't meet your targets. And I could see in recent times how that adds all kinds of pressure to people. So it's no surprise that people are walking away from it. That's really sad, isn't it? In terms of the potential for fundraising going forward, how do we attract people into those jobs if people are leaving at the other end?

Speaker C: So it's about fundraising can be the most rewarding of careers. And by persuading charities of that need to invest in fundraising and invest in their fundraisers to support them, can enable people to have those amazing and wonderful careers that charities need to put work in to make sure the culture is right. And we need to help charities and fundraisers grow charitable giving. We need to change the perceptions out, there of fundraising. It is a proper job, it is a career. And

00:40:00

Speaker C: fundraisers just do the most amazing things. Fundraisers are helping to cure cancer, they're helping to house the homeless, they're helping to make sure that young children can play sports in their communities. These things wouldn't happen without fundraisers. So we need to change that perception in the country of how valuable fundraisers are into our society.

Role of CIOF

Tim Beynon: And tell us, Katie, about the chartered Institute of Fundraising. How do you guys help charities and how can you help individual fundraisers?

Speaker C: So we are the professional membership body there to support fundraisers have that most rewarding of careers. And we want to do this in four different ways. We want to help grow giving in the country. We want to change that, perception of fundraising. We want to bring new talent in and support new talent and encourage new talents. And we want to support fundraisers to be excellent at their jobs, doing their fundraising to the highest of standards. So we're here for fundraisers and we're here to support you.

Tim Beynon: Fantastic. And Katie, put your jump in a time machine for me, if you will, and fast forward five years, maybe even ten years, if you want to tell me what changes we'll see over that time, where. What changes will the fundraising landscape see over the next five to ten years? Do you think?

Speaker C: I'd like us to grow charitable giving by an extra 5 billion in this country? Because that would just make the most amazing difference to all the causes that we all work for. I'd, like fundraisers to be seen as the go to career. I want children in schools to say, when I grow up, I want to be a fundraiser. I want people to know that what an amazing career they can have. And I want it to be easy for people to give and for people to. We talked earlier about how good fundraising, how good giving is for everyone. So let's do everything we can to make that, an experience that people can have everywhere in the country.

Tim Beynon: Brilliant. Katie, thank you ever so much for your time. It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you for joining us today. It's been great.

Speaker C: Thanks so much for having me.

Superstars of the week

Piers Townley: In each episode of the Charity show, we want to celebrate our, sector superstars, those incredible people working, volunteering and fundraising across our sector. You can nominate your deserving colleagues, volunteers or fundraisers. Just email us@thecharityshowpodmail.com dot or get in touch through the links in the show notes. You can even send us a voice message that we can play out in the next episode. So who's your superstar this week, Tim?

Tim Beynon: Well, I've, got two again this week, so I've got two guys. well, first of all, how's your table tennis, piers? Are you a table tennis player? Ping pong?

Piers Townley: I am until my son gets involved and then I'm just not very good at this at all.

Speaker C: No, no, no.

Tim Beynon: Neither of mine live in mine. But, these two guys and two friends have beaten the world record for the longest table tennis rally whilst fundraising for charity. So I thought this is a great story. Dan Ives and Lloyd Gregory from, Bristol achieved the record at ah ping pod, in Bristol as part of a fundraiser for the stillbirth and neonatal Charity sands. They've raised more than 5000 pounds for the cause so far after Dan sadly lost his daughter Lily Ray Ives in 2020. So these two maintained their rally for 13 hours, 36 minutes and 36 seconds, seconds, beating the previous record by 1 hour and 46 minutes. So that's just, just take a minute to think about that. 13 hours, 36 minutes and 36 seconds of playing table tennis. Back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. That's mental.

Piers Townley: My attention span falters after 13 minutes, let alone 13 hours. So, yeah, all credit to them.

Tim Beynon: That is amazing, isn't it? So, yeah, so they're my superstars. Amazing job. What about you, Piers?

Piers Townley: Well, I'm going to revisit, someone that we've mentioned before in the episodes. Tim, you've mentioned Russell Cook in a previous episode, and listeners may remember him as the hardest geezer. He was the man who ran Africa. Well, a book about his experiences is due for release later this year, October 24 at the moment, chronicling all the highs and the lows of which, no doubt, there'll be so many. It took the 27 year old 352 days to run the continent and he crossed the tunisian. It took the 27 year olds 352 days to run the continent, and he crossed the tunisian finish line in April, raising over 1 million pounds for Charity. With superb understatement, Russell said the book would tell stories from the most insane year of my life. He went on to tell the BBC that the challenge fundamentally changed who I am physically, mentally and spiritually in my book. He says, I not only want to tell the untold stories of what really happened during the most insane year of my life, I talk about the steps I took to overcome all the challenges along the way. He goes on to say he hopes he can pass on some of the lessons he's learned. But above all, I hope my story of a truly mad adventure can inspire you to really believe in yourself and go and get you want out of life, whatever that looks like for you. So, fantastic stories all

00:45:00

Piers Townley: together in one place. And Russell was raising money for the running Charity, and he recently completed a brand new challenge of running to Germany so he could be there for the euros. So, October 24, it's going to be a fascinating read from Russell Cook.

Tim Beynon: Excellent. Yeah, good on him. And I hope he's enjoyed the football or is enjoying the football at the time of time of us recording. England are still in it just about. Somehow. Somehow. But, yes, I always enjoyed that amazing run going, running to Germany for the euros as well. Amazing. Amazing guy.

Coming up in future episodes

Piers Townley: So that's it for this episode. Huge thanks to Katie for giving us all plenty of food for thought in regard to fundraising. What have we got coming up over the next few weeks?

Tim Beynon: Well, we've got, as ever, we've got lots to get our teeth into in the in the next episode, we're going to be talking strategy with strategic leader of the year Vicky Beavers, chief executive of the sleep Charity. And over the weeks ahead, we're going to find out how small charities can use the power of research to build their profile and gain media exposure. We'll also hopefully be hearing from lots of you in terms of your shout outs for your charities. As I talked about earlier, get them into us on our, voice message tool. The link to that tool is in the show notes, so get recording and, and we'll play them out in the next episode.

Piers Townley: Absolutely. And don't forget, there are loads of ways you can get involved in future episodes, too. Share your news, tell us about your latest innovations, events, or campaigns, or just tell us what you'd like us to cover.

Tim Beynon: That's right, you can get in touch through the links in the show notes or email us, as Piers said earlier on at, thecharityshowpodmail.com. and don't forget, we always want to hear about your superstars too. So nominate someone who's done something outstanding.

Piers Townley: And in the meantime, please follow us on your usual podcast platform and leave us a review, both of which will help other charity folks to find the show.

Tim Beynon: So that's it for this episode. Take care and we'll see you soon.

00:46:44