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Coming up in Episode 15
Tim Beynon: Hello and welcome to the Charity show, the podcast
for Charity insiders by Charity Insiders. Please rate, follow or subscribe to
us on our usual podcast platform. And here's what's coming up in episode 15.
The risk factor for charities partnering with celebrities. You know, obviously
you're doing it for the right reasons, but there is a risk factor there, isn't
there? What if suddenly those people are in the press for the wrong reason?
What is the impact on the charity? How do charities mitigate against that risk?
Chris Sherwood: For me, it is about being a leader of leaders.
And I know that's one of those cliche phrases we use a lot of the sector, but
I've learned a lot about that. And I think in probably in my first year and a
half, been really honest with you as a chief executive, it was a bit too much
about me. And I've really learned that actually, you know, you as a chief
executive can allocate resources, you can bring people into the table, but you
can't do everything.
Piers Townley: It's the annual London Santa in the city run for
3,000 Santas, which is, you know, a sight to behold. 3,000 Santas. M ran for
over 50 different charities.
Tim Beynon: The highlight for me this week, Piers, has been my
new specs, my new glasses. Oh, my goodness me. Hasd change the world for me.
You and I met up for lunch the other day and we were like a couple of old men
trying to read the menu.
Hello and welcome
Piers Townley: Hello and welcome to episode 15 of the Charity
show with me, Piers Townley, PR manager at the Brain Tumour Charity.
Tim Beynon: And me, Tim Beynon, head of marketing engagement at
Fire Fighters Charity.
Piers Townley: So 10, how's things going? all set. All sorted for
Christmas already?
Tim Beynon: Christmas? Goodness me. Christmas shopping? No, not
at all. Shockingly bad on that front, to be honest. I've still in denial that
it's as close as it actually is. But Christmas is an interesting one, isn't it?
And I've been, I've been looking into this and this is how nerdy I am in terms
of looking at things like how much people spent on Black Friday over that whole
two. Also, Black Friday seemed to last forever this year. It's not a day
anymore, is it? It's a, fortnight. Anyway, apparently it just started in
August. Yeah, I know, it's mental madness. Madness. Anyway, apparently £23.7
billion in the UK was spent over the two week Black Friday period, which is
staggering. That's such a huge amount of money. People buying stuff, but
interesting as well, as well as that huge amount of money. Thatt obviously
spent online, that there's also lots of, stuff in the press at the moment about
people spending more in charity shops, which I think is great. Bit of a
contradiction there in terms of the fact that's people spending all this money
online, but then they're also potentially going to charity shops as well.
Piers Townley: So.
Tim Beynon: Yeah. What are your thoughts on charity shops? Do you
do any of your Christmas shopping in char shops? Will you?
Piers Townley: No, I'll browse them. And probably because we've
got skin in the game as working for a charity, just to see, kind of because we
don't. The Brancru of Charity doesn't have any sort of high street presence
like that. We have toyed with it in the past. So no, I will browse them, but
most of my shopping is probably done online, probably last minute and probably
fairly impulsively on a Friday or Saturday night in between watching a movie,
to be honest. I mean, I said that out loud now, but obviously no, I have a lot
of thought going through it. Every present I think of is very carefully created
and. Yeah, yeah, at moment.
Chris Sherwood: Yeaheah.
Piers Townley: Un'm not you, though. I'm in denial. It's just our
Charity calendars come round again and we seem to have been planning some of
the Christmas stuff for ages and all of a sudden, you know, it's here, isn't
it?
Tim Beynon: Yeah, I know, I know. So let's forget about
Christmas. Let's put Christmas to one side for this episode at least. It's been
a good week for us at the Fire Fighters Charity. we were nominated and
shortlisted for the Best in House Campaign award. Ah. At the Charity Comms
Inspiring Communicator Awards and we didn't win, unfortunately. It was a
really, hotly contested category and some amazing entrance there. And Mencap
won, in the end in our category. But it was such a pleasure to be a part of that
experience. It's a really fantastic event and hats off to, a dealer, Warley,
the chief at Zec at Charity Comm. She's been on the show before and they put on
a fantastic event and really, really, it'an honour to be a part of it and I was
very proud of my team, for the work they put into the projects and the campaign
which we were nominated for. So it was a disappointing but at the same time a
real honour, and a privilege to be a part of that event. So that was great, but
really the highlight for me this week, Peiers has been my new specs, my new
glasses. Oh, my goodness me. It'changed the world for me. You and I met up for
lunch the other day and we were like a couple of old men trying to read the
menu. It was terrible. It was s like holding it at arm's length trying to read
it. That's all changed'got. New specs. I can actually see. So there you go.
Piers Townley: You do look like a new person. Very, very clever,
very intelligent as well. And I keep. I'm in denial. I've problem for a while.
and all this close, close word on computer. I need them more often. But you're
right, we were there with arm'length, weren't we?
Tim Beynon: Cann't quite o, it's terrible. Terrible. But yeah,
there you go. So, yeah, very happy with my new glasses. What about you? Tell me
about your week. Has it been last couple of weeks?
Piers Townley: Well, we had a really good start to the week. We
had the high profile supporter and founder of the Lewis Moody Foundation. Lewis
Moody himself popped by, he just got back from a big Sahara trek week, came to
00:05:00
Piers Townley: the HQ of the Brain Tumeer Charity down here in
Fleet and gabber talked to some of the staffu because obviously we've had quite
a lot of new staffu over the last year. You probably don't know much about
Lewis's association with the Brain Tumour Charity. The story, the fundraising
and of course all the epic challenges and expeditions he's done on behalf of
the foundation, raising so much money and so much awareness for families who
are affected by a Brain Tumour diagnosis. And obviously Lewis was one of our
guests on our last episode, so it was lovely to catch up with him in person and
hear about his latest Sahara Treick. And he was still dusting the sand out of
his hair. But yeah, really good to see Lewis and Annie both here in the office
and then elsewhere. Like so many other charities, in fact more than 1,250
charities, we're now in full big give mode. Actually. the closing data is
Tuesday. So when this episode comes out and it's that week long matched
fundraising annual event that takes place and we become part of that, all our
social posts and we galvize all our supporters, all our celebrities to repost
and try and raise so much money in that week alongside all those hundreds of
other charities that are doing the same. So a big preparation week for us and
then fingers crossed as it closes the next 24, 48 hours will'll reach our
target. But good luck to everyone else and all their fundraising efforts as
well.
Tim Beynon: Fantastic. Also don't forget you were a full on
roving reporter when Lewis came and popped into your office, weren't you? You
got your microphone out and we got a little clip, didn't we? So I think we can
play that, hear what the man himself had to say when he visited.
Chris Sherwood: I think I was prepared for most of it. I knew
it'd be cold in the evenings. It actually wasn't as cold as I thought it would
be. in my mind I think I'd prepared for sand dunes that were, you know, as far
as the eye could see. And at times that was the case. But also they'd been like
a flood, for the first time in 15 years. That wasn't something I was expecting
in Sahara. And so every now and again when you went over Sand Dun around the
corner, there was like this little sort of oasis, you know, paol with a tree
growing out of it and in some areas there was a tonne of greenery.
Piers Townley: That was great to hear from Lewis there. He's got
so many stories. Honestly, we could have listened to him all day. He got such a
warm reception over HQ and he remained such a great supporter of the Brain
Chumichat Anda a fantastic founder for the Lewis Moody Foundation. So just
fantastic to hear from him.
Introducing Chris Sherwood
Tim Beynon: Starting a new job is always a bit of a nervy time,
but what's it like to take the reins as CEO of one of the country's most
familiar and well established charities? Well, Chris Sherwood, current chief
executive of the rspca, should know a seasoned chief executive. He will shortly
be moving from the animal welfare Charity to the top job at the nspcc. So we
spoke to him recently to find out what it takes to be a chief executive. And as
you're about to hear in the first part of our two part interview, he also
shares his advice for anyone thinking about making the step up. Hi Chris, good
to see you.
Chris Sherwood: Welcome.
Tim Beynon: Welcome to the Shy show. Fantastic to have you on.
it's aas, pleasure to meet you and delighted to talk to you today. A bit about
life as a Charity chief executive, and something you obviously got a huge AM
matter of experience, on. And we want to congratulate you first of all on your
recent news, of your appointment as the new CEO of nspcc, and something you'll
be moving to from your current role as Chief executive of the rspca. So
fantastic move and we want to dig into that and find out a bit more about that
and all you've got planned and your hopes and genes for the future in a second.
Chris's early charity career
But before we talk about that, perhaps you can sort of give us a
little bit of a potted history of your Charity career today. What has brought
you to this point?
Chris Sherwood: Thank you so much, Piers and Tim, for having me
on this show. I'm really delighted to join you today as well and, I'm looking
forward to our conversations. So, potted history of my career? Well, if I'm
honest, I fell into Charity work a little bit by accident and I was a student
that had no money, and I worked as a temporary worker, for social services in
Plymouth City Council when I was 19, and needed to earn money to put myself
through university. And from that really found this path into the social
sector. And what kind of drove me was I grew up in Corby in Northamptonshire
during the period of deindustrialization. Really strong social fabrics in
Corby, but also quite a lot of social challenges in the town as well. And my
kind of passion for social justice was really instilled in growing up in a town
that was facing multiple challenges. But actually those ties of civil society
were really strong. And so my first kind of foray into the social sector was
for a, startup, social Enterprise based in Hertfordshire. I moved from Devon to
London to work for a startup called Disable Go. Ah. And then from there working
for brands like Scope, a little bit of time at Shore Trust and then Relate rca,
00:10:00
Chris Sherwood: nspcc. So I feel really fortunate in my career to
worked in some amazing organisations. But I suppose the thing that ties that
together is, I've worked in organisations that have a broad canvas because I'm
really interested in how the social sector contributes to creating what I call
the good society. One that's inclusive, one that's compassionate, one that's
kind, and one where we consider our individual collective impact on each other,
on animals and on the planet. And that's why I've tended to make, certainly in
the latter part of my career, these choices to go to organisations like
Relationships, rspca, Animals and Humans and obviously Child Protection at the
nspcc.
Tim Beynon: Yeah, fantastic. It obviously sounds very. Almost
like charity is deep rooted, in you and has been throughout your life, which is
fantastic to see. And I wanna talk about, that move between, well, you know, as
you mentioned, animals and humans and how you've gone between the two. So let's
talk about that in a second.
Becoming Chief Exec at Relate
But just want to talk a little bit about your first role as,
chief executive was with Relates You m mentioned and you were there as I
understand. I'm sorry, I have gone through your LinkedIn and I know lakein
stalking is a terrible thing but I have gone through your LinkedIn so give me
for that. but you're there for five years where you had previously been
Director of Policy, Communications and Digital Services. What made you at that
point want to take the step up to Chief executive and how did you find that?
Was it daunting? You'd always wanted to do? What was that?
Chris Sherwood: I was laughing because I was bricking myself and
took on the cheap. I was there six years actually and I worked for an
incredible chief executive, Ruth Sutherland. I think Ruth, I've learned so much
from her in my career and when she approached me about the role she took me out
for a drink and she said come and workd for relould. I had a permanent
problemop of time. You'll be an interim director. Ah and we'll pay you less
money and we've got no funding after about four months and I was like dial me
in. I mean I mean it's an incredible organisation. And Ruth left. I was brought
in as a sort of director of Politan Examine affairs and I'NEVER done that role
before. And what I think was incredible about Ruth did was that she focused on
and someone's kind of character and skills of being able to train them up into
the role because I didn't have, you know I'd been two years a public affairs
officer or three years as a media manager so there was some risk in that. But
she could see that potential in me and you know I was probably about 30 at the
time when I took on that job and she coulds see that potential and supported me
and I was able to do a job that I'd wanted to do and you know, which on paper I
probably would have struggled to have been able to do. But she saw that
potential and we were a good partnership and we did a rebrand of Relay and we
really positioned it as a campaigning organisation and built out the
Preventionpiece as well. And a big digital transformation because the shift to
a multi channel service offer was a big part of the work that I did in my three
years as Director of Policy, Digital and External Affairs. So which feels very
passe now but at the time was pretty cutting edge. Ah and particularly in a
complex federated structure with not a lot of reserves to be able to invest in
that change. And so that was exciting. Then she moved on and I the chair at the
time encouraged me to apply for the job and I went, oh, good God, no, I can't
do that job at all. Which, by the way, is a really bad idea to say. Good.
because then I, sure, I went away and thought about it and, I had some
mentoring support of the time. And to answer your question, you know, the
mentoring support actually really challenged me because if I'm honest with you,
there was probably a bit of ego in the room. I'd love to be chief executive.
And actually my mentor was saying, that ain't a good enough reason to go. And a
part of your chiefh executive it's what are you going to do about what you
going to do in the role and how does your skill set help you do that? And I
really thought a lot about what could I bring to that role. And for me it was
around a lot of organisational change needed to happen and so it really shifted
my focus from wouldn't have been nice to be a chief executive, actually to do
this role for this reason. And that's what the mentoring support challenged me
on. And so, yeah, I was successful in that recruitment process and was then
chief executive during quite a challenging period of organisational change for
three years before moving to the rspca. But it was that, why are you applying
for it? Not for the status. Do it because there's a reason and why you can
bring something to the table.
What qualities make a good Chief Exec?
Piers Townley: And, with some of that CEO experience now under
your belt, Chris, what sort of personal and professional qualities do you think
make a good CEO? or what makes it a good foundation for potentially being a
CEO?
Chris Sherwood: You know, I think. And, here's your question.
There links bitits to what you were asking before. Tim. I think I've learned a
lot. I mean, I've been achie executive could for nearly a decade now. and I
think if I could go back and say to myself in my first year and a half as two
things executive could was just relax a bit. There's only so much you can do.
and
00:15:00
Chris Sherwood: I think the key thing is you're only as good as
the people around you. And so building that team and really getting them to
work as a team and that alignment against the strategy and alignment of values,
alignment of purpose is really important. But for me it is about being a leader
of leaders. And I know that's one of those clich phrases we use a lot of the
sector. but I've learned a lot about that and I think in probably in my first
year and a half Be really honest with you as a chief executive it was a bit too
much about me and what I could do and I've really learned that actually you as
a chief executive can allocate resources, you can bring people into the table,
but you can't do everything. And it is about how you work in concert with your
team and I learned a lot about that the whole because I I had some very
challenging times in my times as a chief executive and it's that team that's
really important and then the support outside of work as well as important that
where I balance I like to travel in go and do crazy trips around the world. off
to Libya in two weeks time. Wow. That and to travel is the balance to you know,
the day.
Tim Beynon: Not the obvious holiday destination.
Chris Sherwood: No, no. But you know I've beenn against see
Lectus magna I'm a bit of a fan of ancient history so yeah and again with a
friend and I we've been to some credible countries been tutmenistan together
and Azerbaijan and Armenia and Algeria say we're chalking up another nation
together.
Piers Townley: S whole that's a whole new podcast that is Chris's
Travels.
The importance of a good mentor
I'm going to go off script a little bit Chris because I was
really struck it's something that is a recurring theme when we do the podcast
it about the mentoring aspect of it. You said you had a bit of a mentor
situation before you took on that se well how important was that? And we see it
coming up and again and again with our guests that it's actually providing a
really good soundbar for the next progression where people move roles.
Chris Sherwood: I'm really fortunate to have had you know during
my whole time as chief executive relate and then during my first half my time
at RSPC an incredible mentor and somebody who's actually retired now an
incredible woman called Caroline Copemman and she really worked with me and and
she was a mentor not a coach and coaching I've had before as well it also
fantastic but it was that advice from her wealth of experience and the
challenge and helping me to think through our strategy and help me to think
through the kinds of changes that we've been bringing to the organisation that
mentoring was really important because I was relatively young when I became the
chief executive. I was 37 at the time when I bec came RSPCA forget the dates
now RSPCSU and 34 whenever became a chief executive relate and so that was
relatively young and that mentoring support was really important for me in
helping me to grow. And then I think the other thing was continuous
professional development as well. And part of my when I took on the the relate
to executive job was I actually said rather than pay me the salary that you're
offering me, offering me a lower salary so I can do a professional
qualification and relate we'incredibly supportive in supporting that. so I went
off to do the Akivo Institute of Directors DLO & Co. Direction which really
grounded me because you went as a sector we're really good ah at promoting
talent but not necessarily investing in that talent. And that diploma really
gave me a really good grounding in finance foren non financ because I'd never
read a balance sheet before I became ret chief executive. If I didn't know
back, you know, you knew had to do a OPEX budget and all of a sudden you're now
having to be in ather finance and audit risk committee talking about
investments and business cases and you know I didn't have that grounding and
then governance and strategy, you know I could think about it but actually g me
some tools that really useful and I still use that, you know that learning from
that course nearly a decade later today.
Piers Townley: So it's ongoing.
Tim Beynon: It's a big change, is't it toy? It's a big change
case, isn't it? From being a situation where you might be a specialist in terms
of being a director or specialising in a certain area to being tjective where
you've got toa be across everything. So you've got to be as you on top of it
and finance as you have in terms of policy and hr. You know you'gotta cover all
fields. You got to be an expert on.
Chris Sherwood: Everythingest and not sure it has been expert on
everything. I'm not sure I quite agree with that. But you do, you do need to be
able to ask questions and be able to kind of have that antennae up. And the
thing that I've really learned about is about that really listening to an
organisation and what it's telling you, you know, you know, because you know I
certainly I made a mistake with an issue when I was first chief executiveate. I
didn't listen enough to an issue. It was in the organisation that it became a
bigger issue and actually I could have dealt with that earlier and I learned
that the hard way. But you do need to be able to be across those areas and I
think the other thing for me, the director's chief executive jump personally
for me was a bigger jump than going from a chief executive, a small
organisation, to a bigger organisation. And it was because, you know, you've
got all those issues you'got to be aware of. And certainly I remember as a
director you had your moments in the spotlight where there was an issue in your
area and then it got a bit
00:20:00
Chris Sherwood: quieter. And as a chief executive it never gets
quiet. It's issues in the squatight. And you know, certainly when it's tricky,
people look at you for that kind of reassurance. And I always use the swan
metaphor, because obviously I work for an animal charity. Is that it? Very
graceful above the table, but below feet are going like paddling, like mand
going, I don't know in this situation. But yeah, that kind of swan metaphor.
Let me see me for a few tricky to he.
Tim Beynon: Fascinating stuff from Chris. And we've got the
second part of that interview coming up shortly. But before that, let's take a
look at some third sector news.
Third sector news
What have you got, Piers?
Piers Townley: This is something that always fascinates me. The
Google views the360, mapping the virtual world that is being used to help
charities and alongside their campaigns, but also to give vital support. And it
was on the back of this that I saw that TFL has visually mapped 18 of its
busiest underground stations with the Google street view, which is basically a
backpack, with a 360 camera on. And they wander around the Tube stations and up
and down the escalators and it films and maps and stitching all this together.
So the likes of underground stations such as Westminster, Embankment, Euston
Square, As I said, 18 of their busiest ones. It'to make the journey planning
easier and safer for wheelchair users. And there are plans to map another 18 of
them by the end of this year as well. And TFL have been working with the
wheelchair Charity Whiz Kits on this project and the charities boss, Sarah
Pugh, said this will support wheelchair users to travel through stations,
planning routes and travel with confidence and independence. She goes on to say
that we continue to support new innovations from TFL and other partners to
ensure access to public transport is equitable for all. So a great example of
some fascinating technology being used, to good purposes. So, fantastic there
for Whiskids and tfl.
Tim Beynon: Yeah, that is. I love the sound of that. That's
amazing. And it is interesting, isn't it, because you do hear these stories of
people who are in the public eye who, are, wheelchair users who end up being
the last people off a plane or miss their train stop because no one's there to
let them out and to help them off the train or off the plane. And it's
horrendous. I mean they're doing a good job of highlighting that horrible
reality for disabled people. But, it's good to see that someone like TFL is
working with a wheelchair Charity, these kids, to actually see and do something
about that. So hats up to them and it.
Piers Townley: Seems like, yeah, and the plans are going at pace,
aren't they? They're going to have the whole tube sector mapped out at some
point and the technology gear so readily available and easily available now
there's so many applications for it for so many other, avenues.
Tim Beynon: Amazing. I remember, a Michael McIntyre sketch when
he was talking aboutle Google Maps and how you can see the whole world, you can
map the whole world, every street in the whole world. You, it's all there at a
click of about a mouse for you to look at. What did every single person do?
What does everyone do? And they go into view.
Piers Townley: The first thing they look at own.
Chris Sherwood: House is their own own house.
Tim Beynon: There is.
Chris Sherwood: Don't have.
Piers Townley: If you see yourself in the garden or in the window
or whatever.
Controversies
Tim Beynon: Yeah. For me this week it's two stories, both of
which have really sparked some controversy and sort of been on the front pages
of the news as well in, recent weeks. And they've both kind of got links to
charities that have sort of made me sort of think a little bit. The first one
of these stories is the scandal around, Greg Wallace, the MasterChef,
presenter. Now he, he. I don't wanna go into the details of the scam that I'm
sure everyone's aware of what's happened, but he's been dropped as a Charity
ambassador as a result, of that scandal. And I can't remember now for the life
of me what the Charity. Well, I think it was an autism Charity, that dropped
him as an ambassador. And it just, that sort of made me think a little bit
about PR and celebrity management with charities. It's the risk factor for
charities of getting into bed with. Was a terrible way of putting it with
celebrities, partnering with celebrities. You know, obviously you're doing it
for the right reasons, you're doing it for the betterment of the Charity, to
increase awareness and all of that. But there is a risk factor there, isn't
there? Everyone you end up partnering with or doing stuff with and becomes part
of your promotion and your publicity, there's a risk there. What if suddenly
those people are in the press for the wrong reason? What is the impact on the
charity? How do charities mitigate against that risk? What happens in those
optimizations so I think that's a really interesting story and I think it's one
that I'm really keen that perhaps we get somebody in to talk about it. It's the
whole question of ethics and due diligence around that part those partnerships
as well. When you partner with an organisation you put a fair bit of work into
the due diligence that goes into checking that organisation and so on. And then
who, whether or not, aligns with you ethically as a charity as well. Do
charities do that with celebrities? Does the same process happened with
celebrities? I'm really keen to sort of find out a bit more about that. Cause
it's not really something I do on a day to day basis. So I'm keen to
00:25:00
Tim Beynon: find out more about that. So that was controversy
number one and then controversy number two was the whole thing around Band Aid
and the fact that Band Aid has re Release a 40 year anniversary version of Do
They Know It's Christmas? The song that we all are all very familiar with. And
they featured a whole host of remixed vocals in there from, from famous artists
over the years. And this all came to the fore recently when Ed Sheeran came out
and said that he hadn't been consulted on the use of his vocals. And had he
been, he would have said no, he wouldn't have allowed for his vocals to have
been used on this remixed new version of Do They Know It's Christmas? Because
he stands with Fuse Odg, an artist who I must have, I'm not familiar with but
he's basically criticised Band aid saying that 10 years ago he refused to
participate in Band Aid because he recognised the harm that initiatives like it
inflict on Africa. He says that while they may generate sympathy in donations,
they perpetuate damaging stereotypes that stifle Africa's economic growth,
tourism and investment, ultimately costing the continent trillions and
destroying its dignity, pride and identity. And again, really got me thinking
about that and how, how campaigns can have a limited lifetime and how
circumstances and society changes, can sort of mean that they don't have the
same impact or they have fundamentally shifted and public opinions
fundamentally shifted. and so that just got me thinking from a marketing
perspective. It opens up that whole conversation also around stereotyping and
how you've got, got to be very aware of what you're doing and how it May impact
other people. so just a whole sort of interesting conversation, I think, off
the back of that. You a Band Aid do the know'christmas. F were aware, actually,
that There was a 40th anniversary remix. It didn't do very well in the charts
or it hasn't done.
Piers Townley: No, but you've just given me the FR of my life,
Tim, because I can remember Band Aid when it first came out. So I'm justnna
leave that hanging there in the air, which makes me feel very, very old. So
enough said about that.
Tim Beynon: Yeah. Yeah, there we go. Who sung the first line on
the original? You know, Christmas. You know, that's a pub quiz question the
other night I was in.
Piers Townley: That's a good question, isn't it? I can see so
many of the faces singing so many of the lines in that studio, which at the
time was, you know, an amazing single. in terms of nothing else like it. I
can't remember the name of the first to you.
Tim Beynon: I think it was. I think it was Paul Young. I think it
was Paul Young. I think I might be wrong. I. Yeah, so I can. Can write. Write
in and tell us that. But anyway, it's, It's obviously the world has changed an
awful lot in 40 years and band Aid and Africa, the two might not necessarily be
as close close as they once were. And I think that's just an interesting
conversation. and paints an interesting picture for how charities should be
thinking about the longevity of campaigns going forward and how society changes
can impact their way of thinking as well. So. Yeah, interesting.
Chris Sherwood - Part 2
Piers Townley: Earlier, Chris Sherwood, soon to be the new CEO of
the nspcc, told us about his background and the journey to becoming a chief
executive. In the second part of our interview, we find out how he's going to
be approaching his first few months at the children's charity, how he finds
time to take on a number of voluntary roles on top of his day job, and
crucially, why he likes a Friday night at the pub.
Tim Beynon: And Chris, as you come to the end of your time at the
irpca, let's just look back on your time there last six years. how has the
organisation changed under your leadership over that time?
Chris Sherwood: I mean, I think. I mean, it's changed an awful
lot, you know, and it's a great job and I would encourage anyone in the sector
to apply for this. It's a fantastic job. It has its moments, but my goodness,
I've enjoyed every day for the past six, six and a half years in this job. but
I think Your question was, what's changed? Well, I think we've gone from being
on the naughty step of the sector and lots of articles when I joined about
challenges at the rspca, from finance to governance to whatever, and now it's
actually, I think the fact that I'm being asked to appear on your podcast
probably illustrates that we're seen as an organisation, is one of the leading
charities in the sener. and I can see that in how we're really an attractive
place for talent, for people to come and work and people want to stay here. Our
staff turner rate is running at about 7%, which is incredible when you think
we're a large charity with a large workforce. So I think it's that, and that's
been through the organisation. Financial sustainability, investing in our
future, digital culture, governance, leadership, you know, your organisation.
I'm sat in our small London hub, no longer in our big three story two winged
00:30:00
Chris Sherwood: corporate hq, with my own car, parking space and
flagpoles, you know, you know, even symbolically there's been that kind of
shift, really. So, yeah, that's been, that's given me quite a lot of sense of
satisfaction to see that change and to pass the bat on from my chapter in the
RSPCS history to the next person. And we'll watch with interest from afar to
see what they do with the organisation.
Tim Beynon: And is there anything in particular or any event or
anything that happened in particular over your time at askp, say that you're
most proud of was the one thing that you're going to look back on? I think yes,
that was fantastic.
Chris Sherwood: You know, there's lots of things, but because
you're the Charity podcast and you're thinking about how charities work, the
historic AGM we had in 2019 to change our governance, I mean, there'just been
so much noise about our governance and that was incredible. where we took
forward a change to move the board of trustees from being a council of 28. Ah,
trustees. To being a board of 12 and seeing that introduce term limits and
really modernise our governance. And we hadn't done that since 1974. a report,
the Sparrow Report, which was all in the press in the 70s. So we'd waited from
74 to 2019 to change our governance and that was quite early in my tenure, but
a really big focus for me. And for me, changing governance is not an outcome,
it's an enabler of all the things we've done. Certain. An ambious, ambitious
strategy, a new brand, which I'm really proud of really helping more animals
through our rescuing care work than we have done for years before or really
dialling up our prevention, our campaigning work. That all came from that
governance change in Church House in Westminster on a Saturday afternoon. yeah,
it was, it feels like a long time ago now but seeing the difference that's been
made from that is incredible. So yeah, I'm quietly proud around that.
Tim Beynon: So that was 2019, just before the pandemic.
Leading through the pandemic
That's when we talk to a lot of people on the show and you ask
them things that challed them over recent years. The pandemic obviously is one
that they reflect on particularly. What was it like for you leading.
Chris Sherwood: The YS glier through the COVID It was really
tough. I mean we'd had a really difficult. So I came into the organisation and
governance was a big challenge but we had a really big financial hole, you
know, ah, and we were really draining our reserves and it was quite worrying,
you know, looking at some of the scenarios, of where the organisation could go.
We were really worrying about cash, if I'm m honest with you, which should just
never happen in an organisation like the rspca. So we did have to make some
really difficult decisions and we did reduce our headcount by 15.4% and that
was really sad and as well documented that that was very difficult in our
relationship with unite the union and we have a good constructive relationship
with UNITE now. We've worked with them to really build a great place to work,
you know, invest in our family, family policies and well being and you know,
flexible working. But at that time, you know, we had to take cost out of the
organisation because we were unsustainable and that was really difficult and
personally was difficult for me because I actually had a health scare in the
middle of COVID I hadected bowel cancer and I was consultation meetings with
people whilst also going through tests for bowel cancer and I didn't have it,
thank goodness. But I remember that being a really difficult time and being
really difficult because people were very upset with me for not coming out and
doing face to face meetings but I couldn't and I didn't want to tell people the
real reason why because I didn't want the story to be about me because it was
about them and so it was a bloody nightmare. But difficult but the right
decisions fundamentally it's never easy to close down services or to help make
cuts to jobs and that was really one of the most difficult times for me as a
leader and really Awful for the people involved but actually it restored the
RSPCA's finances and has enabled us to be able to invest in our future as we
are doing now through our transformation programme which has led to our
rebrands and growing our income which we're doing now and, and most importantly
really being able to have a much more effective service operation that we have
because we're a big service provider for animals around the country.
Piers Townley: Yeah, a huge operational shift that Covid and the
Pandemic did for all charities really. Chris we saw the same in our respective
charities as well.
Moving on to NSPCC
Having taken the RSPCA through that period, why now is the time
to move on for you?
Chris Sherwood: It was a difficult choice and yah, I wrestle with
it quite a bit. I love this organisation and it's been one of the greatest
pleasures of my life to be Chief Executive.
00:35:00
Chris Sherwood: But NSPCC has a really special place in my heart
as an organisation and child protection is a cause that's really important to
me. I've lived experience of kind of the issues that NSPCC talks about and it
was one of the roles in the sector that I thought I'd love to be able to apply
for that. And so actually when I was contacted to be offered the rolel after
going through a very seven stage tenensive recruitment process I think they
made me better than the end of it and it was actually a very easy decision to
make. Yeah NPCC is just. I'm so excited to be joining the organisation because
it's such an important institution in our country and the work that it's done
over 140 years is so vital for protecting children and young people. So whilst
I'm very sad moving on from the rspca it's in a really good place. CR RSPCA
with a fantastic chair in Clare Horton, a really strong board of trustees, IT
executive leadership team, good finances, investing in the future. It was time
to move on and the appeal of NSPCC was and the important work there to build on
SA Peter WA was this incredible legacy over relenic years. it was a actually in
the end actually a relatively easy decision to make.
Tim Beynon: Tell us a bit about how you're going to approach that
role. When you walk through the door for the first time, do you have an idea of
what you want to achieve in say your first 100 days? That sounds a bit like
asking a Prime Minister what they're going to do.
Chris Sherwood: In that first time days.
Tim Beynon: There's a question. They always get Asked, but I'll
ask it if you.
Chris Sherwood: You.
Tim Beynon: Any thoughts on that?
Chris Sherwood: Well, for me, a previous chief executive in mind.
She talked about three words when Jory and Rob was And listen, learn and then
lead. And that's always stayed with me and you know, what I to learn about is
building that relationship with the board is going to be important. Building
that relationship is the executive team and getting out and about. So I'm going
to be travelling all over the country during my first 100 days. I'm not sure
I'm a big fan of the hundred days. It's a bit too hard a business view for my
liking. But you know, during those early months is really getting out and
learning about the organisation and hearing stories and know, asking good
questions, you know, what do people like about the organisation? What
frustrates and what do we need to do differently? So there'll be a lot of
listening and learning really. And I think that's incredibly important in these
roles is to really understand why an organisation is like it is. You know, I've
learned that from my time at Relay and rspca. NSPCC is similar. it's an old
organisation, you know, it's got a proud history and you have to understand
that does, how you can work with the organisation and particularly because in
the social sector, you know, I don't know NBCC's culture. I'm still going to be
very new there, but certainly at Relay and rspca, people very invested in the
organisation and coming in and saying, I've got the plan, I know the way, or
coming in and, you know, creating the burning platform, this is all terrible,
doesn't tend to work so well. So for me it's going to be about from good to
great. So, yeah, I'm really looking forward to getting out and about and
travelling all over the country and to learn more about the organisation and,
you know, really, really build my understanding and then look at where I think,
you know, I can add value as a chief executive with my team really. So that's
how I'll approach a, A lot of the conversations, a lot of discussions. One of
the great things about chief executive roles is that there's also quite a lot
of tea and cake that's involved in that as well normally good biscuits. So I
sure look forward to that as well.
Piers Townley: That's. That kind of answers the next question I
was gonna ask about, how you're going to approach taking the team forward
because obviously change is scary for everyone concerned, Chris, you know, so
ensuring that, you know, new CEO comes in, everyone will be thinking what does
that mean for me? What does that mean for the organisation? Will they
understand what we are and what we do? So I think that's possibly in everyone
else's mind in the ch now I guess you're part, a huge part of your role as you
said, is to listen and learn and understand people's nerves and expectations.
Chris Sherwood: Yeah and there's that old adage that you know, as
the two things neg what you say gets amplified a hundred times an like that,
you know, in amusing ways. You know, when you start hearing Chrri Sherw what
has said, you know it's almost like, you know, come down from Mount Sinai and
I've got the Ten Commandments and now Shan go forward and you kind of, you do
have to be aware of that, you know and also I can't not be myself. and so it's
that the organisation getting used to the fact that I'm going toa be different
to Peter and I'm going to leave the organisation in a different way and you
know, and Peter's left an incredible legacy but he's been the ju executive
there for 11 years and I'm going to be new and so is that helping the
organisation to see oh well, what might work in slightly different ways And I'm
a slightly different type of character and you know Peter is a big fan of
football and I know absolutely nothing about football. You know I was a youth
of years ago, I used to actually run a Saturday football club. I remember this
young boy Kruptene said are we playing the offside rul today Chris? And I said
well of course as the ball goes off the pitch you throw it back in again youes
he
00:40:00
Chris Sherwood: wasn't particularly successful at the football
club so but you know, if people want to talk about music or theatre then I'm
new guy so you know, so it's go going toa be that adjustment. But you know, as
I said what I will be doing is really getting out and listening and learning
and kind of holding it back a bit before you sort of run in with that, here's
what I think, you know to take ah, that time to understand, reflect, respect
the organation and then you, you add your bit to the conversation really.
Piers Townley: So I'll just say Chris, apart from obviously the
offside rule, are there any other sort of anecdotes or things that you think
senior leaders or CEOs make when they first join an organisation?
Chris Sherwood: I mean I Remember once this woman who ran one of
the related branches in the southwest and then she said, you aren't a Seagull
leader. And I said, what do you mean by that? Well she said seagull leaders,
when they come to change, come in, steal your chips and then shit on you. And I
thought that was a really nice compliment. She said, you're not a seagull.
Leave.
Piers Townley: So that's something you're definitely not going to
do in your new role with the NSP system. Everyone, everyone's chips, we can say
this are safe at the moment.
Chris Sherwood: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let me kigle that one did.
Yeah. but look Nick, you just. I know I'm fascinated by people. I'm fascinated
by, you know, I'm that kind of person that has conversations with people on
trains and buses. You know, I'm the kind of person that talks to people in my
local coffee shop. And you know, you know Tom, who makes my coffee for me is
his birthday this weekend as well. He's on a nine day shift. You know, like,
you know, I just fascinated by people and so I just love getting out and
talking to people. I'm the kind of person that would really struggle to be in
an office and not see people from day to. I found Covid really hard being you
know, at home. Cause I live on my own as well. That was really difficult. The
cat got sick of me talking. Yeah. So that social aspect is important for me.
Cause I'm just fascinated by what makes people tick and what they're interested
in and where they come from, their life story.
Balancing work and life
Tim Beynon: It's fascinateting to me again looking through your
LinkedIn Chris, I was really taken by the number of voluntary roles that you
also take on and there.
Chris Sherwood: Were other organisation you were re involved.
Tim Beynon: With on alatary basis. How do you balance the work
and the commitment that comes with being a chief executive and tough find time
to do those voluntary roles to vote.
Chris Sherwood: Yeah, I haven't really got a good answer for this
one. I'm not very good at it Tim. I know I'm supposed to give you that. You
know, I'm very good in my work life balance. I'm really not. I'm really good at
encouraging other people to do it. I'm not so good myself. and look, I love the
sector. you know, as I move on to nspcc I will really scale that back and you
know, currently sit on the European trade body for animal protection and I'm
also chairing the global Body and there's a link to my RSPCA role and we'll
pass the bat on, on to other colleagues in the rspca. And I'm really proud to
be on the board of ncvo. I think we've got a fantastic chair in Priier Singh
and a fantastic chief executive in Sarah Elia who is a real joy to be involved
in there. And I love chairing the Charity Awards for Civil Society because you
just get this incredible window into innovation and best plans in our sector
and that takes a couple of days. But I love that I normally sort of lock myself
away in my flat for a weekend and I have to read likes like 200 applications
and then just be really inspired by what they're doing, you know, across the
sector. So I really enjoy the opportunity. But look, I think it's important to
give back and you know, that's my form of volunteering in the sector to be able
to hopefully deploy some of my experience in kind of boards. and I think it's
an important part of being a leader really and I think it brings value back to
the organisation I work for because I bring that external perspective and hope
that insults. Well, that's how I rationalise it. But yeah, am I good at the
work life balance? I try.
Tim Beynon: Chris, it has be a pleasure having you on the show
today. Thank you so much for giving us so much of your time.
Relaxing
my final question, bearing your mind, all that you've said about
all that comes with being a tub executivee, plus your volunteer rolels and
everything that goes with it. What does Chris Sherwood do to relax? What do you
do in the time.
Chris Sherwood: When you have time off? What I do time? Well
you've heard travelling and it's definitely a big part. And then yeah, I've got
a nice break to go travelling between this job and the new job and'm quite
looking forward to that. So I'll be doing a bit of trekking through South
America and doing some, some fun things there and then second is friends, you
know, and you know, Friday and night in my local pub with my best mate, you
chewing the fat, you know, drinking a nice pine, you know, catching up, and
then exercise as well. You know, I'm a keen cyclist and say, you know, if you
see somebody zipping past, you see middle aged man lycra zipping passh on a
bike. It's proably in London, you know, so it, it is that, yeah, ah, you know
and my partner keeps me very grounded as well, and he's Italian, and so he
likes to cook, which is why the cycle quite a lot to offset oay you
00:45:00
Chris Sherwood: say? Yeah, but there'people around me as well.
And then, yeah, that's what keeps me grounded and fun.
Superstars of the week
Tim Beynon: In each episode of the Che show, we want to celebrate
our sector superstar, those incredible people working, volunteering and
fundraising across our sector. And you can nominate your deserving colleagues,
volunteers or fundraisers too. Just email us at theariityshowport, do gmail.com
or get in touch through the links in the show notes. You can even send us a
voice message that we'd be happy to play out in the next episode. So who's your
superstar this week? Beers?
Piers Townley: Our mind's over 3,000 superstars, this week, Tim.
I'm not sure what the collective name for it is, but it's that time of the year
again. Alongside office parties, Christmas jumper emails, it's the annual
London Santa in the City run which took place last week as this episode goes
out. And there's another one planned for later on this week as well. And over
3,000 Santas, which is a siteight to behold. 3,000 Santas ran for over 50
different charities and this year the event was partnered with ah, Sarcoma uk,
which is a charity that tackles a group of rare cancers. So that run saw a wave
of red suited runners racing through London landmarks. St Paul's Cathedral,
River Thames Millennium Bridge, tower Bridge, a 2.8 mile, that's a four and a
half kilometre race, through the city. So a sea of white beards and red bellied
people. And the event organiser, Rebecca Millbourne said Santa in the city
started nine years ago with 450 Santas and has grown to become the incredible
spectacle it is now. She says that this is more than just a run, it's a
community coming together to make a difference. And if you've been lucky enough
to be travelling through London when this takes place, it really is a sight to
behold. Christmas has definitely arrived in the capital and there's 3,000
Santas bearing down in along Oxford Street.
Tim Beynon: Excellent. I think there's lots of that goes on
across the country. We have as a Charity, the Firefighter Charity, a fair few
sort of Santa runs where fire services organised for us, and you know, people
don the costume and run for the Charity. And also amazingly, we have lots of,
lots of fire services that put on and fire individual fire stations that put
on, Santa sleigh. So they've covered the fire engines in Santa stuff. Drive
around town raising money, for us as well. So all hot hats off to the sana.
I've also just googled what's the collective noun for a group of centreers.
There isn't one, but there's some suggestions. A sack of Santas, a sleigh of
Santas or Jingle Santas.
Piers Townley: I like a jingle. Jingled shall be. How is known?
Tim Beynon: Jingle. Okay. My superstar of the week this week is a
Somerset schoolboy, 10 year old schoolboy, who's run the entire Cornish coastal
path to raise money for Charity. Freddy's story from Pitney, near Someerton in
Somerset, completed the 300 mile challenge from Plymouth, South Devon. Deb
Buded in Cornwall accompanied by his dad. And this is amazing because I'm
walking, sort of, very slowly, the southwest coastal path with a friend of mine
and it's taken us years, we only get a couple of days a year to do it. It's
taken us years to go not very far at all. So I know how much of a challenge
this is. It's so up and down, it's not know. We probably walk 12 to 15 miles a
day and we're knackered by the end of it. The time we get to the pub at night,
we are knackered. Absol. Done in. But he's doing this, he's doing, he's
averaging 18 miles a day. He was, you know, he did 18 miles a day, you, every
day, to cover this 300 mile distance, which is incredible. And he says the
hardest bit was going up and down on the blazing hot days. No surprise there.
And when it's really wet and you're going downhill, then you're sleeping,
basically. He says, I feel very good about it and I'm very proud of myself. I'm
also sad that it's over as well. And I a legend. his father, James Story, said
Freddy regularly had to sleep in the back of the car to cover some of the
longer days. On one occasion they covered 33 miles over two consecutive days.
So, yeah, so the hats off, to Freddy and to his dad for what I know from my own
experience is an incredibly hard challenge. So he's been raising money for
Cornwall Wildlife Trust, and he's about halfway to his target of £5,000. So
well done, Freddy. an amazing, feet running feet there. So, yeah, hats off to
you.
Piers Townley: That's amazing. That is, I mean just the numbers
482 kilometres, sometimes 30 kilometres a day. Ye 10 years old. Yeah. What,
what a staff. So that's a wrap for episode 15. Huge thanks to Chris for giving
us an insight into life at the top of some of the UK's biggest charities. And
we've got some other great guests coming up either side of Christmas, too.
Tim Beynon: Yep, in a fortnight'time we're going to be talking
about major donors and philanthropy with Sally Williams. And then after a
little bit of a break for Christmas, we'll be talking to a couple of
inspirational young ambassadors to find out why they give up their time for
charity.
Piers Townley: Looking forward to Tim. And don't forget, you can
be part of the show too.
00:50:00
Piers Townley: Just send us your voice messages or get in touch
through any of the links in the Show Notes to share your stories and tell us
what you'd like us to cover.
Tim Beynon: And of course, we also want to know who your
superstar fundraisers, volunteers or colleagues are too. So head to the Show
Notes and share their brilliance with the rest of us.
Piers Townley: And in the meantime, please follow or subscribe to
us on your usual podcast platform and leave us a review, both of which will
help others to find a show.
Tim Beynon: So that's it for this episode. Thanks for listening.
Take care. good luck with your charity shop Christmas shopping and we'll see
you soon.
00:50:29
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