Episode 15 - Full Transcript

 

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Coming up in Episode 15

Tim Beynon: Hello and welcome to the Charity show, the podcast for Charity insiders by Charity Insiders. Please rate, follow or subscribe to us on our usual podcast platform. And here's what's coming up in episode 15. The risk factor for charities partnering with celebrities. You know, obviously you're doing it for the right reasons, but there is a risk factor there, isn't there? What if suddenly those people are in the press for the wrong reason? What is the impact on the charity? How do charities mitigate against that risk?

Chris Sherwood: For me, it is about being a leader of leaders. And I know that's one of those cliche phrases we use a lot of the sector, but I've learned a lot about that. And I think in probably in my first year and a half, been really honest with you as a chief executive, it was a bit too much about me. And I've really learned that actually, you know, you as a chief executive can allocate resources, you can bring people into the table, but you can't do everything.

Piers Townley: It's the annual London Santa in the city run for 3,000 Santas, which is, you know, a sight to behold. 3,000 Santas. M ran for over 50 different charities.

Tim Beynon: The highlight for me this week, Piers, has been my new specs, my new glasses. Oh, my goodness me. Hasd change the world for me. You and I met up for lunch the other day and we were like a couple of old men trying to read the menu.

Hello and welcome

Piers Townley: Hello and welcome to episode 15 of the Charity show with me, Piers Townley, PR manager at the Brain Tumour Charity.

Tim Beynon: And me, Tim Beynon, head of marketing engagement at Fire Fighters Charity.

Piers Townley: So 10, how's things going? all set. All sorted for Christmas already?

Tim Beynon: Christmas? Goodness me. Christmas shopping? No, not at all. Shockingly bad on that front, to be honest. I've still in denial that it's as close as it actually is. But Christmas is an interesting one, isn't it? And I've been, I've been looking into this and this is how nerdy I am in terms of looking at things like how much people spent on Black Friday over that whole two. Also, Black Friday seemed to last forever this year. It's not a day anymore, is it? It's a, fortnight. Anyway, apparently it just started in August. Yeah, I know, it's mental madness. Madness. Anyway, apparently £23.7 billion in the UK was spent over the two week Black Friday period, which is staggering. That's such a huge amount of money. People buying stuff, but interesting as well, as well as that huge amount of money. Thatt obviously spent online, that there's also lots of, stuff in the press at the moment about people spending more in charity shops, which I think is great. Bit of a contradiction there in terms of the fact that's people spending all this money online, but then they're also potentially going to charity shops as well.

Piers Townley: So.

Tim Beynon: Yeah. What are your thoughts on charity shops? Do you do any of your Christmas shopping in char shops? Will you?

Piers Townley: No, I'll browse them. And probably because we've got skin in the game as working for a charity, just to see, kind of because we don't. The Brancru of Charity doesn't have any sort of high street presence like that. We have toyed with it in the past. So no, I will browse them, but most of my shopping is probably done online, probably last minute and probably fairly impulsively on a Friday or Saturday night in between watching a movie, to be honest. I mean, I said that out loud now, but obviously no, I have a lot of thought going through it. Every present I think of is very carefully created and. Yeah, yeah, at moment.

Chris Sherwood: Yeaheah.

Piers Townley: Un'm not you, though. I'm in denial. It's just our Charity calendars come round again and we seem to have been planning some of the Christmas stuff for ages and all of a sudden, you know, it's here, isn't it?

Tim Beynon: Yeah, I know, I know. So let's forget about Christmas. Let's put Christmas to one side for this episode at least. It's been a good week for us at the Fire Fighters Charity. we were nominated and shortlisted for the Best in House Campaign award. Ah. At the Charity Comms Inspiring Communicator Awards and we didn't win, unfortunately. It was a really, hotly contested category and some amazing entrance there. And Mencap won, in the end in our category. But it was such a pleasure to be a part of that experience. It's a really fantastic event and hats off to, a dealer, Warley, the chief at Zec at Charity Comm. She's been on the show before and they put on a fantastic event and really, really, it'an honour to be a part of it and I was very proud of my team, for the work they put into the projects and the campaign which we were nominated for. So it was a disappointing but at the same time a real honour, and a privilege to be a part of that event. So that was great, but really the highlight for me this week, Peiers has been my new specs, my new glasses. Oh, my goodness me. It'changed the world for me. You and I met up for lunch the other day and we were like a couple of old men trying to read the menu. It was terrible. It was s like holding it at arm's length trying to read it. That's all changed'got. New specs. I can actually see. So there you go.

Piers Townley: You do look like a new person. Very, very clever, very intelligent as well. And I keep. I'm in denial. I've problem for a while. and all this close, close word on computer. I need them more often. But you're right, we were there with arm'length, weren't we?

Tim Beynon: Cann't quite o, it's terrible. Terrible. But yeah, there you go. So, yeah, very happy with my new glasses. What about you? Tell me about your week. Has it been last couple of weeks?

Piers Townley: Well, we had a really good start to the week. We had the high profile supporter and founder of the Lewis Moody Foundation. Lewis Moody himself popped by, he just got back from a big Sahara trek week, came to

00:05:00

Piers Townley: the HQ of the Brain Tumeer Charity down here in Fleet and gabber talked to some of the staffu because obviously we've had quite a lot of new staffu over the last year. You probably don't know much about Lewis's association with the Brain Tumour Charity. The story, the fundraising and of course all the epic challenges and expeditions he's done on behalf of the foundation, raising so much money and so much awareness for families who are affected by a Brain Tumour diagnosis. And obviously Lewis was one of our guests on our last episode, so it was lovely to catch up with him in person and hear about his latest Sahara Treick. And he was still dusting the sand out of his hair. But yeah, really good to see Lewis and Annie both here in the office and then elsewhere. Like so many other charities, in fact more than 1,250 charities, we're now in full big give mode. Actually. the closing data is Tuesday. So when this episode comes out and it's that week long matched fundraising annual event that takes place and we become part of that, all our social posts and we galvize all our supporters, all our celebrities to repost and try and raise so much money in that week alongside all those hundreds of other charities that are doing the same. So a big preparation week for us and then fingers crossed as it closes the next 24, 48 hours will'll reach our target. But good luck to everyone else and all their fundraising efforts as well.

Tim Beynon: Fantastic. Also don't forget you were a full on roving reporter when Lewis came and popped into your office, weren't you? You got your microphone out and we got a little clip, didn't we? So I think we can play that, hear what the man himself had to say when he visited.

Chris Sherwood: I think I was prepared for most of it. I knew it'd be cold in the evenings. It actually wasn't as cold as I thought it would be. in my mind I think I'd prepared for sand dunes that were, you know, as far as the eye could see. And at times that was the case. But also they'd been like a flood, for the first time in 15 years. That wasn't something I was expecting in Sahara. And so every now and again when you went over Sand Dun around the corner, there was like this little sort of oasis, you know, paol with a tree growing out of it and in some areas there was a tonne of greenery.

Piers Townley: That was great to hear from Lewis there. He's got so many stories. Honestly, we could have listened to him all day. He got such a warm reception over HQ and he remained such a great supporter of the Brain Chumichat Anda a fantastic founder for the Lewis Moody Foundation. So just fantastic to hear from him.

Introducing Chris Sherwood

Tim Beynon: Starting a new job is always a bit of a nervy time, but what's it like to take the reins as CEO of one of the country's most familiar and well established charities? Well, Chris Sherwood, current chief executive of the rspca, should know a seasoned chief executive. He will shortly be moving from the animal welfare Charity to the top job at the nspcc. So we spoke to him recently to find out what it takes to be a chief executive. And as you're about to hear in the first part of our two part interview, he also shares his advice for anyone thinking about making the step up. Hi Chris, good to see you.

Chris Sherwood: Welcome.

Tim Beynon: Welcome to the Shy show. Fantastic to have you on. it's aas, pleasure to meet you and delighted to talk to you today. A bit about life as a Charity chief executive, and something you obviously got a huge AM matter of experience, on. And we want to congratulate you first of all on your recent news, of your appointment as the new CEO of nspcc, and something you'll be moving to from your current role as Chief executive of the rspca. So fantastic move and we want to dig into that and find out a bit more about that and all you've got planned and your hopes and genes for the future in a second.

Chris's early charity career

But before we talk about that, perhaps you can sort of give us a little bit of a potted history of your Charity career today. What has brought you to this point?

Chris Sherwood: Thank you so much, Piers and Tim, for having me on this show. I'm really delighted to join you today as well and, I'm looking forward to our conversations. So, potted history of my career? Well, if I'm honest, I fell into Charity work a little bit by accident and I was a student that had no money, and I worked as a temporary worker, for social services in Plymouth City Council when I was 19, and needed to earn money to put myself through university. And from that really found this path into the social sector. And what kind of drove me was I grew up in Corby in Northamptonshire during the period of deindustrialization. Really strong social fabrics in Corby, but also quite a lot of social challenges in the town as well. And my kind of passion for social justice was really instilled in growing up in a town that was facing multiple challenges. But actually those ties of civil society were really strong. And so my first kind of foray into the social sector was for a, startup, social Enterprise based in Hertfordshire. I moved from Devon to London to work for a startup called Disable Go. Ah. And then from there working for brands like Scope, a little bit of time at Shore Trust and then Relate rca,

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Chris Sherwood: nspcc. So I feel really fortunate in my career to worked in some amazing organisations. But I suppose the thing that ties that together is, I've worked in organisations that have a broad canvas because I'm really interested in how the social sector contributes to creating what I call the good society. One that's inclusive, one that's compassionate, one that's kind, and one where we consider our individual collective impact on each other, on animals and on the planet. And that's why I've tended to make, certainly in the latter part of my career, these choices to go to organisations like Relationships, rspca, Animals and Humans and obviously Child Protection at the nspcc.

Tim Beynon: Yeah, fantastic. It obviously sounds very. Almost like charity is deep rooted, in you and has been throughout your life, which is fantastic to see. And I wanna talk about, that move between, well, you know, as you mentioned, animals and humans and how you've gone between the two. So let's talk about that in a second.

Becoming Chief Exec at Relate

But just want to talk a little bit about your first role as, chief executive was with Relates You m mentioned and you were there as I understand. I'm sorry, I have gone through your LinkedIn and I know lakein stalking is a terrible thing but I have gone through your LinkedIn so give me for that. but you're there for five years where you had previously been Director of Policy, Communications and Digital Services. What made you at that point want to take the step up to Chief executive and how did you find that? Was it daunting? You'd always wanted to do? What was that?

Chris Sherwood: I was laughing because I was bricking myself and took on the cheap. I was there six years actually and I worked for an incredible chief executive, Ruth Sutherland. I think Ruth, I've learned so much from her in my career and when she approached me about the role she took me out for a drink and she said come and workd for relould. I had a permanent problemop of time. You'll be an interim director. Ah and we'll pay you less money and we've got no funding after about four months and I was like dial me in. I mean I mean it's an incredible organisation. And Ruth left. I was brought in as a sort of director of Politan Examine affairs and I'NEVER done that role before. And what I think was incredible about Ruth did was that she focused on and someone's kind of character and skills of being able to train them up into the role because I didn't have, you know I'd been two years a public affairs officer or three years as a media manager so there was some risk in that. But she could see that potential in me and you know I was probably about 30 at the time when I took on that job and she coulds see that potential and supported me and I was able to do a job that I'd wanted to do and you know, which on paper I probably would have struggled to have been able to do. But she saw that potential and we were a good partnership and we did a rebrand of Relay and we really positioned it as a campaigning organisation and built out the Preventionpiece as well. And a big digital transformation because the shift to a multi channel service offer was a big part of the work that I did in my three years as Director of Policy, Digital and External Affairs. So which feels very passe now but at the time was pretty cutting edge. Ah and particularly in a complex federated structure with not a lot of reserves to be able to invest in that change. And so that was exciting. Then she moved on and I the chair at the time encouraged me to apply for the job and I went, oh, good God, no, I can't do that job at all. Which, by the way, is a really bad idea to say. Good. because then I, sure, I went away and thought about it and, I had some mentoring support of the time. And to answer your question, you know, the mentoring support actually really challenged me because if I'm honest with you, there was probably a bit of ego in the room. I'd love to be chief executive. And actually my mentor was saying, that ain't a good enough reason to go. And a part of your chiefh executive it's what are you going to do about what you going to do in the role and how does your skill set help you do that? And I really thought a lot about what could I bring to that role. And for me it was around a lot of organisational change needed to happen and so it really shifted my focus from wouldn't have been nice to be a chief executive, actually to do this role for this reason. And that's what the mentoring support challenged me on. And so, yeah, I was successful in that recruitment process and was then chief executive during quite a challenging period of organisational change for three years before moving to the rspca. But it was that, why are you applying for it? Not for the status. Do it because there's a reason and why you can bring something to the table.

What qualities make a good Chief Exec?

Piers Townley: And, with some of that CEO experience now under your belt, Chris, what sort of personal and professional qualities do you think make a good CEO? or what makes it a good foundation for potentially being a CEO?

Chris Sherwood: You know, I think. And, here's your question. There links bitits to what you were asking before. Tim. I think I've learned a lot. I mean, I've been achie executive could for nearly a decade now. and I think if I could go back and say to myself in my first year and a half as two things executive could was just relax a bit. There's only so much you can do. and

00:15:00

Chris Sherwood: I think the key thing is you're only as good as the people around you. And so building that team and really getting them to work as a team and that alignment against the strategy and alignment of values, alignment of purpose is really important. But for me it is about being a leader of leaders. And I know that's one of those clich phrases we use a lot of the sector. but I've learned a lot about that and I think in probably in my first year and a half Be really honest with you as a chief executive it was a bit too much about me and what I could do and I've really learned that actually you as a chief executive can allocate resources, you can bring people into the table, but you can't do everything. And it is about how you work in concert with your team and I learned a lot about that the whole because I I had some very challenging times in my times as a chief executive and it's that team that's really important and then the support outside of work as well as important that where I balance I like to travel in go and do crazy trips around the world. off to Libya in two weeks time. Wow. That and to travel is the balance to you know, the day.

Tim Beynon: Not the obvious holiday destination.

Chris Sherwood: No, no. But you know I've beenn against see Lectus magna I'm a bit of a fan of ancient history so yeah and again with a friend and I we've been to some credible countries been tutmenistan together and Azerbaijan and Armenia and Algeria say we're chalking up another nation together.

Piers Townley: S whole that's a whole new podcast that is Chris's Travels.

The importance of a good mentor

I'm going to go off script a little bit Chris because I was really struck it's something that is a recurring theme when we do the podcast it about the mentoring aspect of it. You said you had a bit of a mentor situation before you took on that se well how important was that? And we see it coming up and again and again with our guests that it's actually providing a really good soundbar for the next progression where people move roles.

Chris Sherwood: I'm really fortunate to have had you know during my whole time as chief executive relate and then during my first half my time at RSPC an incredible mentor and somebody who's actually retired now an incredible woman called Caroline Copemman and she really worked with me and and she was a mentor not a coach and coaching I've had before as well it also fantastic but it was that advice from her wealth of experience and the challenge and helping me to think through our strategy and help me to think through the kinds of changes that we've been bringing to the organisation that mentoring was really important because I was relatively young when I became the chief executive. I was 37 at the time when I bec came RSPCA forget the dates now RSPCSU and 34 whenever became a chief executive relate and so that was relatively young and that mentoring support was really important for me in helping me to grow. And then I think the other thing was continuous professional development as well. And part of my when I took on the the relate to executive job was I actually said rather than pay me the salary that you're offering me, offering me a lower salary so I can do a professional qualification and relate we'incredibly supportive in supporting that. so I went off to do the Akivo Institute of Directors DLO & Co. Direction which really grounded me because you went as a sector we're really good ah at promoting talent but not necessarily investing in that talent. And that diploma really gave me a really good grounding in finance foren non financ because I'd never read a balance sheet before I became ret chief executive. If I didn't know back, you know, you knew had to do a OPEX budget and all of a sudden you're now having to be in ather finance and audit risk committee talking about investments and business cases and you know I didn't have that grounding and then governance and strategy, you know I could think about it but actually g me some tools that really useful and I still use that, you know that learning from that course nearly a decade later today.

Piers Townley: So it's ongoing.

Tim Beynon: It's a big change, is't it toy? It's a big change case, isn't it? From being a situation where you might be a specialist in terms of being a director or specialising in a certain area to being tjective where you've got toa be across everything. So you've got to be as you on top of it and finance as you have in terms of policy and hr. You know you'gotta cover all fields. You got to be an expert on.

Chris Sherwood: Everythingest and not sure it has been expert on everything. I'm not sure I quite agree with that. But you do, you do need to be able to ask questions and be able to kind of have that antennae up. And the thing that I've really learned about is about that really listening to an organisation and what it's telling you, you know, you know, because you know I certainly I made a mistake with an issue when I was first chief executiveate. I didn't listen enough to an issue. It was in the organisation that it became a bigger issue and actually I could have dealt with that earlier and I learned that the hard way. But you do need to be able to be across those areas and I think the other thing for me, the director's chief executive jump personally for me was a bigger jump than going from a chief executive, a small organisation, to a bigger organisation. And it was because, you know, you've got all those issues you'got to be aware of. And certainly I remember as a director you had your moments in the spotlight where there was an issue in your area and then it got a bit

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Chris Sherwood: quieter. And as a chief executive it never gets quiet. It's issues in the squatight. And you know, certainly when it's tricky, people look at you for that kind of reassurance. And I always use the swan metaphor, because obviously I work for an animal charity. Is that it? Very graceful above the table, but below feet are going like paddling, like mand going, I don't know in this situation. But yeah, that kind of swan metaphor. Let me see me for a few tricky to he.

Tim Beynon: Fascinating stuff from Chris. And we've got the second part of that interview coming up shortly. But before that, let's take a look at some third sector news.

Third sector news

What have you got, Piers?

Piers Townley: This is something that always fascinates me. The Google views the360, mapping the virtual world that is being used to help charities and alongside their campaigns, but also to give vital support. And it was on the back of this that I saw that TFL has visually mapped 18 of its busiest underground stations with the Google street view, which is basically a backpack, with a 360 camera on. And they wander around the Tube stations and up and down the escalators and it films and maps and stitching all this together. So the likes of underground stations such as Westminster, Embankment, Euston Square, As I said, 18 of their busiest ones. It'to make the journey planning easier and safer for wheelchair users. And there are plans to map another 18 of them by the end of this year as well. And TFL have been working with the wheelchair Charity Whiz Kits on this project and the charities boss, Sarah Pugh, said this will support wheelchair users to travel through stations, planning routes and travel with confidence and independence. She goes on to say that we continue to support new innovations from TFL and other partners to ensure access to public transport is equitable for all. So a great example of some fascinating technology being used, to good purposes. So, fantastic there for Whiskids and tfl.

Tim Beynon: Yeah, that is. I love the sound of that. That's amazing. And it is interesting, isn't it, because you do hear these stories of people who are in the public eye who, are, wheelchair users who end up being the last people off a plane or miss their train stop because no one's there to let them out and to help them off the train or off the plane. And it's horrendous. I mean they're doing a good job of highlighting that horrible reality for disabled people. But, it's good to see that someone like TFL is working with a wheelchair Charity, these kids, to actually see and do something about that. So hats up to them and it.

Piers Townley: Seems like, yeah, and the plans are going at pace, aren't they? They're going to have the whole tube sector mapped out at some point and the technology gear so readily available and easily available now there's so many applications for it for so many other, avenues.

Tim Beynon: Amazing. I remember, a Michael McIntyre sketch when he was talking aboutle Google Maps and how you can see the whole world, you can map the whole world, every street in the whole world. You, it's all there at a click of about a mouse for you to look at. What did every single person do? What does everyone do? And they go into view.

Piers Townley: The first thing they look at own.

Chris Sherwood: House is their own own house.

Tim Beynon: There is.

Chris Sherwood: Don't have.

Piers Townley: If you see yourself in the garden or in the window or whatever.

Controversies

Tim Beynon: Yeah. For me this week it's two stories, both of which have really sparked some controversy and sort of been on the front pages of the news as well in, recent weeks. And they've both kind of got links to charities that have sort of made me sort of think a little bit. The first one of these stories is the scandal around, Greg Wallace, the MasterChef, presenter. Now he, he. I don't wanna go into the details of the scam that I'm sure everyone's aware of what's happened, but he's been dropped as a Charity ambassador as a result, of that scandal. And I can't remember now for the life of me what the Charity. Well, I think it was an autism Charity, that dropped him as an ambassador. And it just, that sort of made me think a little bit about PR and celebrity management with charities. It's the risk factor for charities of getting into bed with. Was a terrible way of putting it with celebrities, partnering with celebrities. You know, obviously you're doing it for the right reasons, you're doing it for the betterment of the Charity, to increase awareness and all of that. But there is a risk factor there, isn't there? Everyone you end up partnering with or doing stuff with and becomes part of your promotion and your publicity, there's a risk there. What if suddenly those people are in the press for the wrong reason? What is the impact on the charity? How do charities mitigate against that risk? What happens in those optimizations so I think that's a really interesting story and I think it's one that I'm really keen that perhaps we get somebody in to talk about it. It's the whole question of ethics and due diligence around that part those partnerships as well. When you partner with an organisation you put a fair bit of work into the due diligence that goes into checking that organisation and so on. And then who, whether or not, aligns with you ethically as a charity as well. Do charities do that with celebrities? Does the same process happened with celebrities? I'm really keen to sort of find out a bit more about that. Cause it's not really something I do on a day to day basis. So I'm keen to

00:25:00

Tim Beynon: find out more about that. So that was controversy number one and then controversy number two was the whole thing around Band Aid and the fact that Band Aid has re Release a 40 year anniversary version of Do They Know It's Christmas? The song that we all are all very familiar with. And they featured a whole host of remixed vocals in there from, from famous artists over the years. And this all came to the fore recently when Ed Sheeran came out and said that he hadn't been consulted on the use of his vocals. And had he been, he would have said no, he wouldn't have allowed for his vocals to have been used on this remixed new version of Do They Know It's Christmas? Because he stands with Fuse Odg, an artist who I must have, I'm not familiar with but he's basically criticised Band aid saying that 10 years ago he refused to participate in Band Aid because he recognised the harm that initiatives like it inflict on Africa. He says that while they may generate sympathy in donations, they perpetuate damaging stereotypes that stifle Africa's economic growth, tourism and investment, ultimately costing the continent trillions and destroying its dignity, pride and identity. And again, really got me thinking about that and how, how campaigns can have a limited lifetime and how circumstances and society changes, can sort of mean that they don't have the same impact or they have fundamentally shifted and public opinions fundamentally shifted. and so that just got me thinking from a marketing perspective. It opens up that whole conversation also around stereotyping and how you've got, got to be very aware of what you're doing and how it May impact other people. so just a whole sort of interesting conversation, I think, off the back of that. You a Band Aid do the know'christmas. F were aware, actually, that There was a 40th anniversary remix. It didn't do very well in the charts or it hasn't done.

Piers Townley: No, but you've just given me the FR of my life, Tim, because I can remember Band Aid when it first came out. So I'm justnna leave that hanging there in the air, which makes me feel very, very old. So enough said about that.

Tim Beynon: Yeah. Yeah, there we go. Who sung the first line on the original? You know, Christmas. You know, that's a pub quiz question the other night I was in.

Piers Townley: That's a good question, isn't it? I can see so many of the faces singing so many of the lines in that studio, which at the time was, you know, an amazing single. in terms of nothing else like it. I can't remember the name of the first to you.

Tim Beynon: I think it was. I think it was Paul Young. I think it was Paul Young. I think I might be wrong. I. Yeah, so I can. Can write. Write in and tell us that. But anyway, it's, It's obviously the world has changed an awful lot in 40 years and band Aid and Africa, the two might not necessarily be as close close as they once were. And I think that's just an interesting conversation. and paints an interesting picture for how charities should be thinking about the longevity of campaigns going forward and how society changes can impact their way of thinking as well. So. Yeah, interesting.

Chris Sherwood - Part 2

Piers Townley: Earlier, Chris Sherwood, soon to be the new CEO of the nspcc, told us about his background and the journey to becoming a chief executive. In the second part of our interview, we find out how he's going to be approaching his first few months at the children's charity, how he finds time to take on a number of voluntary roles on top of his day job, and crucially, why he likes a Friday night at the pub.

Tim Beynon: And Chris, as you come to the end of your time at the irpca, let's just look back on your time there last six years. how has the organisation changed under your leadership over that time?

Chris Sherwood: I mean, I think. I mean, it's changed an awful lot, you know, and it's a great job and I would encourage anyone in the sector to apply for this. It's a fantastic job. It has its moments, but my goodness, I've enjoyed every day for the past six, six and a half years in this job. but I think Your question was, what's changed? Well, I think we've gone from being on the naughty step of the sector and lots of articles when I joined about challenges at the rspca, from finance to governance to whatever, and now it's actually, I think the fact that I'm being asked to appear on your podcast probably illustrates that we're seen as an organisation, is one of the leading charities in the sener. and I can see that in how we're really an attractive place for talent, for people to come and work and people want to stay here. Our staff turner rate is running at about 7%, which is incredible when you think we're a large charity with a large workforce. So I think it's that, and that's been through the organisation. Financial sustainability, investing in our future, digital culture, governance, leadership, you know, your organisation. I'm sat in our small London hub, no longer in our big three story two winged

00:30:00

Chris Sherwood: corporate hq, with my own car, parking space and flagpoles, you know, you know, even symbolically there's been that kind of shift, really. So, yeah, that's been, that's given me quite a lot of sense of satisfaction to see that change and to pass the bat on from my chapter in the RSPCS history to the next person. And we'll watch with interest from afar to see what they do with the organisation.

Tim Beynon: And is there anything in particular or any event or anything that happened in particular over your time at askp, say that you're most proud of was the one thing that you're going to look back on? I think yes, that was fantastic.

Chris Sherwood: You know, there's lots of things, but because you're the Charity podcast and you're thinking about how charities work, the historic AGM we had in 2019 to change our governance, I mean, there'just been so much noise about our governance and that was incredible. where we took forward a change to move the board of trustees from being a council of 28. Ah, trustees. To being a board of 12 and seeing that introduce term limits and really modernise our governance. And we hadn't done that since 1974. a report, the Sparrow Report, which was all in the press in the 70s. So we'd waited from 74 to 2019 to change our governance and that was quite early in my tenure, but a really big focus for me. And for me, changing governance is not an outcome, it's an enabler of all the things we've done. Certain. An ambious, ambitious strategy, a new brand, which I'm really proud of really helping more animals through our rescuing care work than we have done for years before or really dialling up our prevention, our campaigning work. That all came from that governance change in Church House in Westminster on a Saturday afternoon. yeah, it was, it feels like a long time ago now but seeing the difference that's been made from that is incredible. So yeah, I'm quietly proud around that.

Tim Beynon: So that was 2019, just before the pandemic.

Leading through the pandemic

That's when we talk to a lot of people on the show and you ask them things that challed them over recent years. The pandemic obviously is one that they reflect on particularly. What was it like for you leading.

Chris Sherwood: The YS glier through the COVID It was really tough. I mean we'd had a really difficult. So I came into the organisation and governance was a big challenge but we had a really big financial hole, you know, ah, and we were really draining our reserves and it was quite worrying, you know, looking at some of the scenarios, of where the organisation could go. We were really worrying about cash, if I'm m honest with you, which should just never happen in an organisation like the rspca. So we did have to make some really difficult decisions and we did reduce our headcount by 15.4% and that was really sad and as well documented that that was very difficult in our relationship with unite the union and we have a good constructive relationship with UNITE now. We've worked with them to really build a great place to work, you know, invest in our family, family policies and well being and you know, flexible working. But at that time, you know, we had to take cost out of the organisation because we were unsustainable and that was really difficult and personally was difficult for me because I actually had a health scare in the middle of COVID I hadected bowel cancer and I was consultation meetings with people whilst also going through tests for bowel cancer and I didn't have it, thank goodness. But I remember that being a really difficult time and being really difficult because people were very upset with me for not coming out and doing face to face meetings but I couldn't and I didn't want to tell people the real reason why because I didn't want the story to be about me because it was about them and so it was a bloody nightmare. But difficult but the right decisions fundamentally it's never easy to close down services or to help make cuts to jobs and that was really one of the most difficult times for me as a leader and really Awful for the people involved but actually it restored the RSPCA's finances and has enabled us to be able to invest in our future as we are doing now through our transformation programme which has led to our rebrands and growing our income which we're doing now and, and most importantly really being able to have a much more effective service operation that we have because we're a big service provider for animals around the country.

Piers Townley: Yeah, a huge operational shift that Covid and the Pandemic did for all charities really. Chris we saw the same in our respective charities as well.

Moving on to NSPCC

Having taken the RSPCA through that period, why now is the time to move on for you?

Chris Sherwood: It was a difficult choice and yah, I wrestle with it quite a bit. I love this organisation and it's been one of the greatest pleasures of my life to be Chief Executive.

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Chris Sherwood: But NSPCC has a really special place in my heart as an organisation and child protection is a cause that's really important to me. I've lived experience of kind of the issues that NSPCC talks about and it was one of the roles in the sector that I thought I'd love to be able to apply for that. And so actually when I was contacted to be offered the rolel after going through a very seven stage tenensive recruitment process I think they made me better than the end of it and it was actually a very easy decision to make. Yeah NPCC is just. I'm so excited to be joining the organisation because it's such an important institution in our country and the work that it's done over 140 years is so vital for protecting children and young people. So whilst I'm very sad moving on from the rspca it's in a really good place. CR RSPCA with a fantastic chair in Clare Horton, a really strong board of trustees, IT executive leadership team, good finances, investing in the future. It was time to move on and the appeal of NSPCC was and the important work there to build on SA Peter WA was this incredible legacy over relenic years. it was a actually in the end actually a relatively easy decision to make.

Tim Beynon: Tell us a bit about how you're going to approach that role. When you walk through the door for the first time, do you have an idea of what you want to achieve in say your first 100 days? That sounds a bit like asking a Prime Minister what they're going to do.

Chris Sherwood: In that first time days.

Tim Beynon: There's a question. They always get Asked, but I'll ask it if you.

Chris Sherwood: You.

Tim Beynon: Any thoughts on that?

Chris Sherwood: Well, for me, a previous chief executive in mind. She talked about three words when Jory and Rob was And listen, learn and then lead. And that's always stayed with me and you know, what I to learn about is building that relationship with the board is going to be important. Building that relationship is the executive team and getting out and about. So I'm going to be travelling all over the country during my first 100 days. I'm not sure I'm a big fan of the hundred days. It's a bit too hard a business view for my liking. But you know, during those early months is really getting out and learning about the organisation and hearing stories and know, asking good questions, you know, what do people like about the organisation? What frustrates and what do we need to do differently? So there'll be a lot of listening and learning really. And I think that's incredibly important in these roles is to really understand why an organisation is like it is. You know, I've learned that from my time at Relay and rspca. NSPCC is similar. it's an old organisation, you know, it's got a proud history and you have to understand that does, how you can work with the organisation and particularly because in the social sector, you know, I don't know NBCC's culture. I'm still going to be very new there, but certainly at Relay and rspca, people very invested in the organisation and coming in and saying, I've got the plan, I know the way, or coming in and, you know, creating the burning platform, this is all terrible, doesn't tend to work so well. So for me it's going to be about from good to great. So, yeah, I'm really looking forward to getting out and about and travelling all over the country and to learn more about the organisation and, you know, really, really build my understanding and then look at where I think, you know, I can add value as a chief executive with my team really. So that's how I'll approach a, A lot of the conversations, a lot of discussions. One of the great things about chief executive roles is that there's also quite a lot of tea and cake that's involved in that as well normally good biscuits. So I sure look forward to that as well.

Piers Townley: That's. That kind of answers the next question I was gonna ask about, how you're going to approach taking the team forward because obviously change is scary for everyone concerned, Chris, you know, so ensuring that, you know, new CEO comes in, everyone will be thinking what does that mean for me? What does that mean for the organisation? Will they understand what we are and what we do? So I think that's possibly in everyone else's mind in the ch now I guess you're part, a huge part of your role as you said, is to listen and learn and understand people's nerves and expectations.

Chris Sherwood: Yeah and there's that old adage that you know, as the two things neg what you say gets amplified a hundred times an like that, you know, in amusing ways. You know, when you start hearing Chrri Sherw what has said, you know it's almost like, you know, come down from Mount Sinai and I've got the Ten Commandments and now Shan go forward and you kind of, you do have to be aware of that, you know and also I can't not be myself. and so it's that the organisation getting used to the fact that I'm going toa be different to Peter and I'm going to leave the organisation in a different way and you know, and Peter's left an incredible legacy but he's been the ju executive there for 11 years and I'm going to be new and so is that helping the organisation to see oh well, what might work in slightly different ways And I'm a slightly different type of character and you know Peter is a big fan of football and I know absolutely nothing about football. You know I was a youth of years ago, I used to actually run a Saturday football club. I remember this young boy Kruptene said are we playing the offside rul today Chris? And I said well of course as the ball goes off the pitch you throw it back in again youes he

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Chris Sherwood: wasn't particularly successful at the football club so but you know, if people want to talk about music or theatre then I'm new guy so you know, so it's go going toa be that adjustment. But you know, as I said what I will be doing is really getting out and listening and learning and kind of holding it back a bit before you sort of run in with that, here's what I think, you know to take ah, that time to understand, reflect, respect the organation and then you, you add your bit to the conversation really.

Piers Townley: So I'll just say Chris, apart from obviously the offside rule, are there any other sort of anecdotes or things that you think senior leaders or CEOs make when they first join an organisation?

Chris Sherwood: I mean I Remember once this woman who ran one of the related branches in the southwest and then she said, you aren't a Seagull leader. And I said, what do you mean by that? Well she said seagull leaders, when they come to change, come in, steal your chips and then shit on you. And I thought that was a really nice compliment. She said, you're not a seagull. Leave.

Piers Townley: So that's something you're definitely not going to do in your new role with the NSP system. Everyone, everyone's chips, we can say this are safe at the moment.

Chris Sherwood: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let me kigle that one did. Yeah. but look Nick, you just. I know I'm fascinated by people. I'm fascinated by, you know, I'm that kind of person that has conversations with people on trains and buses. You know, I'm the kind of person that talks to people in my local coffee shop. And you know, you know Tom, who makes my coffee for me is his birthday this weekend as well. He's on a nine day shift. You know, like, you know, I just fascinated by people and so I just love getting out and talking to people. I'm the kind of person that would really struggle to be in an office and not see people from day to. I found Covid really hard being you know, at home. Cause I live on my own as well. That was really difficult. The cat got sick of me talking. Yeah. So that social aspect is important for me. Cause I'm just fascinated by what makes people tick and what they're interested in and where they come from, their life story.

Balancing work and life

Tim Beynon: It's fascinateting to me again looking through your LinkedIn Chris, I was really taken by the number of voluntary roles that you also take on and there.

Chris Sherwood: Were other organisation you were re involved.

Tim Beynon: With on alatary basis. How do you balance the work and the commitment that comes with being a chief executive and tough find time to do those voluntary roles to vote.

Chris Sherwood: Yeah, I haven't really got a good answer for this one. I'm not very good at it Tim. I know I'm supposed to give you that. You know, I'm very good in my work life balance. I'm really not. I'm really good at encouraging other people to do it. I'm not so good myself. and look, I love the sector. you know, as I move on to nspcc I will really scale that back and you know, currently sit on the European trade body for animal protection and I'm also chairing the global Body and there's a link to my RSPCA role and we'll pass the bat on, on to other colleagues in the rspca. And I'm really proud to be on the board of ncvo. I think we've got a fantastic chair in Priier Singh and a fantastic chief executive in Sarah Elia who is a real joy to be involved in there. And I love chairing the Charity Awards for Civil Society because you just get this incredible window into innovation and best plans in our sector and that takes a couple of days. But I love that I normally sort of lock myself away in my flat for a weekend and I have to read likes like 200 applications and then just be really inspired by what they're doing, you know, across the sector. So I really enjoy the opportunity. But look, I think it's important to give back and you know, that's my form of volunteering in the sector to be able to hopefully deploy some of my experience in kind of boards. and I think it's an important part of being a leader really and I think it brings value back to the organisation I work for because I bring that external perspective and hope that insults. Well, that's how I rationalise it. But yeah, am I good at the work life balance? I try.

Tim Beynon: Chris, it has be a pleasure having you on the show today. Thank you so much for giving us so much of your time.

Relaxing

my final question, bearing your mind, all that you've said about all that comes with being a tub executivee, plus your volunteer rolels and everything that goes with it. What does Chris Sherwood do to relax? What do you do in the time.

Chris Sherwood: When you have time off? What I do time? Well you've heard travelling and it's definitely a big part. And then yeah, I've got a nice break to go travelling between this job and the new job and'm quite looking forward to that. So I'll be doing a bit of trekking through South America and doing some, some fun things there and then second is friends, you know, and you know, Friday and night in my local pub with my best mate, you chewing the fat, you know, drinking a nice pine, you know, catching up, and then exercise as well. You know, I'm a keen cyclist and say, you know, if you see somebody zipping past, you see middle aged man lycra zipping passh on a bike. It's proably in London, you know, so it, it is that, yeah, ah, you know and my partner keeps me very grounded as well, and he's Italian, and so he likes to cook, which is why the cycle quite a lot to offset oay you

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Chris Sherwood: say? Yeah, but there'people around me as well. And then, yeah, that's what keeps me grounded and fun.

Superstars of the week

Tim Beynon: In each episode of the Che show, we want to celebrate our sector superstar, those incredible people working, volunteering and fundraising across our sector. And you can nominate your deserving colleagues, volunteers or fundraisers too. Just email us at theariityshowport, do gmail.com or get in touch through the links in the show notes. You can even send us a voice message that we'd be happy to play out in the next episode. So who's your superstar this week? Beers?

Piers Townley: Our mind's over 3,000 superstars, this week, Tim. I'm not sure what the collective name for it is, but it's that time of the year again. Alongside office parties, Christmas jumper emails, it's the annual London Santa in the City run which took place last week as this episode goes out. And there's another one planned for later on this week as well. And over 3,000 Santas, which is a siteight to behold. 3,000 Santas ran for over 50 different charities and this year the event was partnered with ah, Sarcoma uk, which is a charity that tackles a group of rare cancers. So that run saw a wave of red suited runners racing through London landmarks. St Paul's Cathedral, River Thames Millennium Bridge, tower Bridge, a 2.8 mile, that's a four and a half kilometre race, through the city. So a sea of white beards and red bellied people. And the event organiser, Rebecca Millbourne said Santa in the city started nine years ago with 450 Santas and has grown to become the incredible spectacle it is now. She says that this is more than just a run, it's a community coming together to make a difference. And if you've been lucky enough to be travelling through London when this takes place, it really is a sight to behold. Christmas has definitely arrived in the capital and there's 3,000 Santas bearing down in along Oxford Street.

Tim Beynon: Excellent. I think there's lots of that goes on across the country. We have as a Charity, the Firefighter Charity, a fair few sort of Santa runs where fire services organised for us, and you know, people don the costume and run for the Charity. And also amazingly, we have lots of, lots of fire services that put on and fire individual fire stations that put on, Santa sleigh. So they've covered the fire engines in Santa stuff. Drive around town raising money, for us as well. So all hot hats off to the sana. I've also just googled what's the collective noun for a group of centreers. There isn't one, but there's some suggestions. A sack of Santas, a sleigh of Santas or Jingle Santas.

Piers Townley: I like a jingle. Jingled shall be. How is known?

Tim Beynon: Jingle. Okay. My superstar of the week this week is a Somerset schoolboy, 10 year old schoolboy, who's run the entire Cornish coastal path to raise money for Charity. Freddy's story from Pitney, near Someerton in Somerset, completed the 300 mile challenge from Plymouth, South Devon. Deb Buded in Cornwall accompanied by his dad. And this is amazing because I'm walking, sort of, very slowly, the southwest coastal path with a friend of mine and it's taken us years, we only get a couple of days a year to do it. It's taken us years to go not very far at all. So I know how much of a challenge this is. It's so up and down, it's not know. We probably walk 12 to 15 miles a day and we're knackered by the end of it. The time we get to the pub at night, we are knackered. Absol. Done in. But he's doing this, he's doing, he's averaging 18 miles a day. He was, you know, he did 18 miles a day, you, every day, to cover this 300 mile distance, which is incredible. And he says the hardest bit was going up and down on the blazing hot days. No surprise there. And when it's really wet and you're going downhill, then you're sleeping, basically. He says, I feel very good about it and I'm very proud of myself. I'm also sad that it's over as well. And I a legend. his father, James Story, said Freddy regularly had to sleep in the back of the car to cover some of the longer days. On one occasion they covered 33 miles over two consecutive days. So, yeah, so the hats off, to Freddy and to his dad for what I know from my own experience is an incredibly hard challenge. So he's been raising money for Cornwall Wildlife Trust, and he's about halfway to his target of £5,000. So well done, Freddy. an amazing, feet running feet there. So, yeah, hats off to you.

Piers Townley: That's amazing. That is, I mean just the numbers 482 kilometres, sometimes 30 kilometres a day. Ye 10 years old. Yeah. What, what a staff. So that's a wrap for episode 15. Huge thanks to Chris for giving us an insight into life at the top of some of the UK's biggest charities. And we've got some other great guests coming up either side of Christmas, too.

Tim Beynon: Yep, in a fortnight'time we're going to be talking about major donors and philanthropy with Sally Williams. And then after a little bit of a break for Christmas, we'll be talking to a couple of inspirational young ambassadors to find out why they give up their time for charity.

Piers Townley: Looking forward to Tim. And don't forget, you can be part of the show too.

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Piers Townley: Just send us your voice messages or get in touch through any of the links in the Show Notes to share your stories and tell us what you'd like us to cover.

Tim Beynon: And of course, we also want to know who your superstar fundraisers, volunteers or colleagues are too. So head to the Show Notes and share their brilliance with the rest of us.

Piers Townley: And in the meantime, please follow or subscribe to us on your usual podcast platform and leave us a review, both of which will help others to find a show.

Tim Beynon: So that's it for this episode. Thanks for listening. Take care. good luck with your charity shop Christmas shopping and we'll see you soon.

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