Episode 10 - Full Transcript

 

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Welcome to Episode 10

Tim Beynon: Hello and welcome to the Charity show, the podcast for Charity Insiders by Charity Insiders. Please rate, follow or subscribe to us on your usual podcast platform. And here's what's coming up in episode ten.

Piers Townley: I found it terrifying, if I'm honest, literal hairs on my back of my neck moment because, and I played it, I played it to Tam and she was like, I can't tell, I could not tell. If you hadn't told me that was fake, I would not have known it.

Tim Beynon: This is quite shocking, actually, that a, donkey welfare Charity has received more donations in a single year than four leading domestic abuse charities combined. Women's aid, refuge, idas and safe lives together raised far less money donations than the donkey sanctuary.

Laura Thurlow BEM: So for levy, paying charities of that larger size, and the government will fund 100% of the costs of the training for their staff. For smaller organisations, the government will fund at least 95% of the training costs. And we're talking, I mean, for example, our, level three fundraiser apprenticeship. The total cost of that 15 month programme is 8000 pounds. So it is substantial, the government funding that we're talking about.

Tim Beynon: I can't swim. I can swim, but, you know, I struggled to do more than two or three lengths of the swimming pool. I couldn't imagine doing the English Channel.

Piers Townley: So, yeah, you've done a marathon, Tim. You'd walk it. Wouldn't walk it, you'd paddle it.

Tim Beynon: No, you've not seen me swim it. Yeah, my kids routinely laugh at me whenever I go into water.

Catching up on the last two weeks

Hello and welcome to episode ten of the Charity show with me, Tim Bohnen, head of marketing engagement at the firefighters.

Piers Townley: Charity, and me, Pierce Townley, PR manager at, the Brain Tumour Charity.

Tim Beynon: So what have you been up to the last couple of weeks, Piers? I hear you've been hobnobbing it again at the third sector awards.

Piers Townley: Yes, we were. For the first time we returned there in person as a charity. and yeah, it was an amazing day. It was amazing to see so many worthwhile charities, all sorts of sizes and incomes and all the different causes that were gathered there for you. What is essentially the third sector? Oscarse, really. We had Mark Watson, a comedian I, think is really, really good anyway, doing the hosting of it and the bridge, which we charge you up for our, celebrity Charity champion category. And that was Amy Nuttall. Unfortunately, Amy didn't win and Tony Christie did. Tony Christie, a, very popular singer and, campaigner for the Utley foundation. So they won overall in that category, but loads of charities were nominated. Loads were highly commended and obviously loads one as well. So it was. It was just wonderful to be in a room with so many of the third sector colleagues that you kind of, you know, via, socials and emails, but you don't actually know in person. So, yeah, it was a very inspiring afternoon.

Tim Beynon: Nice. Was it, was it, was it a bit of a drink up as well? Was there a bit. Was there a meal there? Did you have.

Piers Townley: There was a really fancy meal.

Tim Beynon: Glam.

Piers Townley: Yeah, yeah, it was quite glam. Combed my hair, brushed, you know, brushed my teeth and everything. Wow. Yeah. Sit down meal and then a very long and very celebratory award section of the afternoon.

Tim Beynon: Nice, nice. Excellent stuff. Excellent stuff. Well, I've done that. I haven't been doing anything anyway, anything near as exciting as that. My tux has remained firmly in its. In the wardrobe somewhere, gathering dust, as it has been for a long time. So nothing that exciting for me. But I did stumble across something very interesting. Have a listen to this. All right, so, ever wonder what it really takes to run a charity in the UK?

Laura Thurlow BEM: We're taking a deep dive into the Charity show podcast to give you that insider perspective. You know, it's like listening in on a conversation m between two people who've been there and done that in the Charity world, Tim and Piers. It is interesting how they make it.

Tim Beynon: accessible to everyone. Right. You get the sense that they want to kind of, like you said, demystify the whole Charity sector for anyone who's ever been curious. Yeah, it's not just for people who work in charities.

Laura Thurlow BEM: Exactly. And they don't shy away from the tough questions either. Right off the bat, in their first episode, they're tackling how to launch a charity during a cost of living crisis.

Tim Beynon: I mean, that's so relevant. Sounds amazing, doesn't it? It sounds like it's a, couple people on a podcast somewhere, chatting about us. all very nice, all very fluffy. Two people, clearly Americans, obviously, talking about the Charity show and how great we are, which is lovely to hear.

Piers Townley: I find it terrifying, if I'm honest, literal hairs on my back of my neck moment, because, I played it. I played it to Tam and she was like, I can't tell. I could not tell. If you hadn't told me that was fake, I would not have known it. And I don't know whether that's an incredibly exciting thing to hear or an incredibly terrifying thing to.

Tim Beynon: So just to go back and step, because you're absolutely right. This little clip we just played out there for anyone who hasn't heard that before, because I put it. We put it on LinkedIn, we put it on our socials, last week

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Tim Beynon: is entirely false. It's entirely AI generated. Those are not real people. That is not a real conversation. it's a tool called Notebook lm. It's a Google tool. It's, free to use, and you input a source. In this case, we input our, website URL and it generates a conversation, a podcast style conversation between two people, two american people. And it sounds so real. It's terrifyingly scary about how good AI is at this stage. I wanted just to raise, just to play that out on the show today because obviously we talked a lot, as you said, biz previously, to Zoe Amber when she came onto the show to talk about the potential of AI. This just illustrates how powerful a tool it is and what it can do. so if you're interested at all, go and cheque out Google notebook because it does things like that. But it also does a huge amount of other stuff in terms of helping you to analyse resources and especially sort of quite lengthy, policy documents, that kind of thing. You could use a, notebook to help you to analyse that and to generate a podcast. Conversation like that. Slightly worries me that podcasts might be redundant when a real people. There could be an, entirely AI generated version of us at some times.

Piers Townley: It's totally unknown, isn't it? But one thing I will say, the artificial review that the two presenters gave at the show was very complimentary. So we'll take that.

Tim Beynon: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So anyway, scary stuff. I wanted us to shout about that. That was amazing. So that's that. And the other thing I wanted us to remind everyone about is, our, voice messages. So it's been lovely, over the last, couple of weeks to have a couple come into us or a few drop into our voice message folder and just wanted to remind everybody that the functionality is there. So you can quite easily just take 1030, 20 seconds out of your day, send, us a voice message about anything you want, and we'll play it out on the Charity show just like Diane did.

Time for some voice messages

Laura Thurlow BEM: You have one unheard message. Cracking Good Food's Kitchen kit callout campaign collects pre loved kitchen kit to redistribute to community organisations across greater Manchester. this has already benefited an estimated 19,000 people and saved 95.5 tonnes of emissions from landfill. We're now looking for venues to volunteer to host one of our lovely orange collection bins. This could be businesses, shops, schools, any public place. If you're interested, please email kitchenkitrackinggoodfood.org. we'd love to hear from you. End of messages.

Professional development 

Piers Townley: This week, though, we caught up with former Charity chief exec and current apprenticeship training force for Good, Laura Thurlow, to find out why charities might be missing out on free, or very nearly free training opportunities for their staff. Have you taken advantage of our, professional development training over the years, Tim?

Tim Beynon: Yeah, we've been lucky. I've been. Well, I have been very lucky at the firefighters Charity a few years back now, the Charity put me through and a lot of my colleagues through a level two certificate in leadership and management. And it was quite a daunting thing at the time. It was a bit like going back to school because it was a lot of time out, from work to study, take part in these kind of lectures and get to grips with some, of the academic study that went with it. But I really enjoyed it and I came out of it with a certificate, as well, which was fantastic. So very, very grateful to Charity for that. And it's something I really benefited from.

Piers Townley: What about up, not so many external, courses, plenty of internal, refreshers, plenty of internal training. But having spoken and having both of us spoken to Laura, I'm actually very intrigued with the apprenticeship scheme. So that's something I'll be taking back to my teams and exploring with them on a professional day to day basis. part of my role is to look after our celebrity ambassadors that we have at the Charity. And I think the networking that the third sector can offer, whether that's medical research networks that are out there, the journalist networks are out there. For me, it's the celebrity Managers Forum, which is a monthly hosted hybrid meeting, generally in person with all the celebrity and the PR managers and the talent acquisition managers from various big and small charities out there. And it's just a very useful network to bring a problem, bring an issue, bring a moan, realise m that you're not alone in your little bubble, in your particular charity. Everyone has similar kind of barriers and blockers and also to share tips and to share ideas and to bounce ways of working off each other. And, I found that one of the most valuable external, not a course, but an external kind of form for us.

Tim Beynon: Yeah. And learning from others, really important. And that's what people can do through the Charity show, that's what you can listen to us, we can share all.

Another voice message

Laura Thurlow BEM: That help with that you have one unheard message. Hi, I'm Emma Coates from Advice UK. We are the voice of around 700 independent advice giving organisations across the UK. And we're launching our, Advice saves campaign to shine a spotlight on the invaluable work of advice UK members and independent advice organisations across the country. You can find out more about the campaign and how to support us by visiting adviceuk.org dot UK advicesaves, where you can download a supporters toolkit

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Laura Thurlow BEM: and share on social media. We'd really appreciate your support so that we can ensure that advice continues to save lives. Thank you. End of messages.

This week's news

Tim Beynon: Okay, let's take a look at some third sector news. What's caught your eye this week, piers?

Piers Townley: Well, actually, this comes back to something we talk about at the top of each show off record, really, which is our new dogs that we've both acquired over the last few months. And it was a report out in the BBC that charities are struggling with an influx of older dogs. A lot of, canine charities out there are seeing older dogs being given away to Charity or given up to Charity, largely because of cost of living or increasing medical bills, and that charities of all sizes need to wake up to the opportunities out there and, look into how dogs can still find homes and still give a lot back to people. So there's this bit of a crisis there that the BBC is highlighting. And one Charity boss said that she was petrified about the approaching winter, as she feared lots of numbers would increase massively, obviously, with the cost of living, the cost of Christmas, people having to make, you know, really heartbreaking decisions about where finances and where they're at, you know, where their attention can go. And then the article continued with lots of case studies of people finding their older best friends. A dog is a man's best friend. The older dogs are friends too. So it was kind of a sad story, but also highlighting something that would never really cross my mind, you know, the problem of older, older dogs and the charities rising to the influx that they think they're going to get.

Tim Beynon: Yeah, I think it's an interesting one. I think since getting a dog, our first family dog, you become more aware, don't you, of these kind of stories as you see them in the news. I actually wondered as well, you know, so many people got dogs during lockdown, during COVID whether or not in years to come, that will be an issue in terms of them perhaps not wanting to pay those increased vet bills when those dogs get older. So maybe there's a kind of on the horizon. There's a crisis looming. Even bigger, perhaps.

Piers Townley: Well, that cliche of a ticking time bond, isn't it? When these dogs do get older, I mean, I'm the same. I've got a puppy. Eleven month old. You've got a puppy as well. You realise how integral they are to the family and how attached and how part of your life they end up becoming. So it's almost a two pronged thing to give them away. Must be a heart wrench and an incredibly difficult decision. Then it's like, well, what do they happen? What do the charities do? How can they be then care for?

Tim Beynon: Yeah, absolutely. Well, my story this week, or one of the stories I picked up this week, also animal related. And it's the fact that this is quite shocking, actually, that a donkey welfare Charity has received more donations in a single year than four leading domestic abuse charities combined. which, new figures have shown. So the data from the Charity commission register reveals that four domestic abuse charities, women's aid, refuge, idas and safe lives together, raised far less money through donations than the donkey sanctuary. So those four charities together raised a total of 11.3 million pounds during 22, 23. But the donkey sanctuary raised 51.7 million pounds in 2022. Now, that's staggering, isn't it? I mean, I think we all know that animal charities do very, very well out of the great british public. Great british public loves their love animals and donates to such charities. But that really, really struck me as that stark difference between public sympathy when it comes to animals and really, really important issues, like domestic abuse. And for one Charity to out raise, four other, charities in such a spectacular fashion. It's just, it really, really hit home for me about how that there's that disparity in public feeling towards charities.

Piers Townley: Yeah, that's depending on what they're theme. I bring up in a lot of my meetings as well. Obviously, being a medical research Charity, the bridgehumor Charity doesn't have income that matches anywhere close to the donkey Charity. So in one hand, hats off to their marketing and the way they target their donations. You know, most people probably have never met a donkey in their entire lives, and yet, there you go, it's sitting there with over 50 million a, year while we're clawing around for anywhere near that.

Tim Beynon: So, yeah, so the question is, how can other charities get a bigger slice of the pie? What can the rest of us do? Not that we want to do down the animal charities, of course. They do hugely important work, but how do we slightly redress the balance slightly so that those important charities, like those four domestic abuse charities, get a bigger slice of the pie. So that was a really interesting piece. And, then the other one that I just wanted to raise, I think it's a staggering record is that the final Charity fundraising total from the 2024? London Marathon, the TCS London Marathon, was a brand new world record. So the marathon this year raised 73.5 million pounds, a new breaking its own record, which, is incredible. The largest annual one day fundraising event ever, 73.5 million pounds. So, yeah, amazing.

Piers Townley: It is amazing. I'm still not tempted to sign up myself, but I

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Piers Townley: know you've done one. And of course there's two great charities that I co host of this, podcast, so obviously they're the best ones to run for as well. Anyone who's got a ballot place, anyone thinking of running 2025, you have my salute. Amazing thing to do.

Tim Beynon: Absolutely.

Introducing Laura Thurlow BEM

Former Charity chief executive Laura Thurdo Bem, turns your attention to helping charities take advantage of fully government funded, or very nearly fully funded apprenticeship training opportunities for their new and existing staff, from entry level qualifications all the way up to masters degree level. But these opportunities are flying under the radar for a lot of charities, as many have never considered apprenticeships as a possible training option for their staff. So, as Laura told us when piers and I caught up with her, recently, charities of all sizes need to wake up to the opportunities out there and look into which of the 700 apprenticeships available to them could help their people and teams to develop. Indeed, if you've ever wondered what your Charity could offer you and your colleagues in terms of professional development, or if you've ever considered undertaking a new qualification yourself, but wondered how you'd fit it around work, or how you'd afford the tuition fees, an apprenticeship, it seems, could be the answer. Hi, Laura, great to see you. Great to meet you. Thank you for joining us here on the Charity show. It's fantastic to welcome you. Tell us a little bit about your background, tell us a little bit about why we're talking today and the kind of things we're going to cover.

Laura Thurlow BEM: Yeah, great to be with you.

Laura'a background

so, I'm Laura Thurlow. I have always worked in the Charity sector, so, from the moment I left university, that's what I knew that I wanted to do. So I started out in a disability Charity in my hometown in Suffolk, and then I worked at Community foundation for, ended up being there for twelve and a half years and, we funded lots of fantastic charities and community groups. So learnt a lot about the Charity sector, particularly, as a funding organisation. So I'm really passionate about charities and the work that they do. but I know I've had a bit of a change for the last three years, I've been working part time for an independent training provider. but my clients are all charities, so I'm still talking to people that are actively in the Charity sector world.

Tim Beynon: So you've got a foot in both camps now?

Laura Thurlow BEM: At the moment, yes. Yeah.

Tim Beynon: Cool. Okay.

Helping charities access apprenticeship training

So I mean, today, I mean, as you mentioned, you're, as I understand it, and correct me if I'm wrong, you're a business development manager for a training provider and your job is to essentially help charities to access government funded apprenticeship training for their staff, as I understand it. Am I right? Is that a good sign?

Laura Thurlow BEM: Absolutely correct, yeah. As somebody that was a Charity leader and managing staff, recruiting staff, it wasn't something that was on my radar. So I think that's why I'm really passionate about making sure that charity leaders are aware and are, accessing all of the benefits of apprenticeships.

Tim Beynon: Fantastic. I really want to delve into that and we will do, a little bit later on. But before we do that, perhaps let's just go back to basics a little bit, if you don't mind, and just talk a little bit about apprenticeships.

Government funding for apprenticeships is substantial

I think a lot of people, when they think about apprenticeships, they think about a routing to work for young people. But we're talking about apprenticeship opportunities here for people of all ages and at all stages of their career, is that right?

Laura Thurlow BEM: Absolutely correct, yeah. I mean, they can be a fantastic tool for people at an entry level into careers, but they are, ah, the average, apprentices is much older than 16, which is what we think of when we think apprenticeships and they're available at all levels, all the way up to master's degree levels. So, yeah, ah, they're fantastic opportunity for people who want to continue to grow in their career or move into a new area.

Piers Townley: So when we talk about, government funding in terms of apprenticeships, laura, how does that work? Who pays for what, what's the kind of mechanisms of those things?

Laura Thurlow BEM: Yeah, so some of the larger charities will be very aware because once you get over 3 million pounds as a pay bill, you actually, at any organisation, including charities, you have to start paying what's called the apprenticeship levy. So, a small percentage has to be paid to the government and that has to go out. and so those charities are very much motivated to make sure they get the value back from what they're having to spend there, and drawing that money, that levy funding down to train their staff. and so for levy, paying charities of that larger size and the government will fund 100% of the costs of the training for their staff. For smaller organisations, the government will fund at least 95% of the training costs. And we're talking, I mean, for example, our, level three fundraiser apprenticeship, the total cost of that 15 month programme is 8000 pounds. So it is substantial, the government funding that we're talking about and smaller charities that are not paying the levy. There are also a couple of other ways that they can get it 100% funded. So even if they're having to pay the 5%, it's a few hundred pounds for a substantial training course. It's really cost effective, even if they can't get it 100% government funded.

Tim Beynon: I'm assuming as well that the charities also pay, are paying the wages for the employees as well. It's the training that's funded. The charities are paying the salaries.

Laura Thurlow BEM: You're absolutely right, yeah. Good clarification.

Piers Townley: I'm going to get my name down for this, I think.

There are over 700 apprenticeships available across the charity sector

What kind of training are we talking about

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here, Laura and M? Where do you see the biggest demand across the different size of charities?

Laura Thurlow BEM: Yeah. So nationally there are over 700 different apprenticeships. so there is a vast, vast, ah, range. So that's basically 700 jobs where a group of people, employers, have sat down and worked out what are the competencies, the skills, the behaviours that needed to be great at that job and they've developed an apprenticeship around that job. So there's over 700, many of them will be relevant to the Charity sector. At JGA we have a whole suite of marketing apprenticeships, for example, fundraising events, policy, as well as administration service design. So there's a really broad range and as I said earlier, different levels all the way up to master's degree level. So it's much wider and broader than I think people often recognise when they think about apprenticeships.

Piers Townley: And, are you seeing a lot more take up in recent years of these sorts of apprenticeships? I suppose people are more aware of them, perhaps, yeah.

Laura Thurlow BEM: There has been more take up in recent years. I think there's still a lot to do to make sure that charities are aware that this is an option that they can use, as we said earlier, not just for people coming into, the Charity as new recruits, but also for their existing staff that they're wanting to retain and invest in their learning and development. It's a fantastic opportunity. So I think there's more to do to make sure the charities, particularly the ones that are not paying the Libby, who are not already motivated to get the value out of that money that they're spending to become more aware of the opportunity.

Tim Beynon: I think that's crucial, isn't it, that whole point around awareness, because we've been in various charities, Piers and I have over the years, and I'm sure piers, like me, you've undertaken training at the Charity and so on and so forth, but I think conversations around apprenticeships, I've not really come across that before. So I think that kind of raising awareness of exactly that and giving, make sure that employers, charities as employers are able to pass, that information on to their teams is really crucial. So tell us a little bit about that in terms of what does that involve? How are you actually educating charities about this opportunity?

Laura Thurlow BEM: A, ah, range of ways. Ah, so I spend a lot of time on LinkedIn, reaching out to charity managers and leaders, and attending events and networking opportunities to get to, share the message, spend a lot of time basically in this virtual world, having teams, meetings, with charities all across. It's lovely, isn't it? You don't have to travel anywhere these days. You could just sit and speak to people right across the country. and it's really rewarding actually, when people recognise that actually. Oh, this is something that is going to solve a problem for me and yeah, it's going to be a great option. And, you're just flagging that in their awareness that it just as. I think it's busy Charity leaders, as I say, I can speak because I was one, we don't have time to explore things we don't yet know about, do we? So if it's not on your radar, then, it's just about bringing it across those people's paths. So, as I say, I think there's more to do, but, I'm plugging away in the hours that I have to spend.

Apprenticeships and smaller charities

Tim Beynon: William, we know as well from talking to some of our past guests on the show, who perhaps are working or founded or leading small charities, that have working on shoestring budgets, don't have the money perhaps to invest in their small teams as they would like to do so. So is this an opportunity really for them to grab hold off with both hands?

Laura Thurlow BEM: Yeah, I think it can work well for smaller charities. Obviously, they need to be we've had conversations with very, very small charities where maybe the senior leader is the only member of staff and they're working part time, where logistically it hasn't necessarily worked out. It's not going to work out for them to be able to support appropriately, someone coming in as an apprentice, because although they're outsourcing the training to the training provider, there is time that needs to be spent as a line manager, bedding that, learning in and sharing the context that they're working in. How does this map out within, the context of our organisation? so we have had to have some difficult conversations with very small charities where until they grow a little bit further, they just haven't quite got the capacity. Although they can benefit from taking someone on and us training them, they haven't quite got that wrap around support. So I think they need to be of a reasonable size. tended to find that sort of about the million pound income threshold, but that's just quite a broad, brushstroke, but of a size where they can, they have got the capacity to kind of offer that support and help, and have that wraparound team to support them.

Tim Beynon: I suppose they've also got to be able to afford losing the time, you've got to lose your employee for however many days or hours it is per week to take part in the actual training. So they've got to be able to afford that as well, I suppose, yeah.

Laura Thurlow BEM: And the government, in terms of that time, the government sets that as an average of 6 hours a week if someone's working full time. So it's not quite a full day a week. but there are some crossovers. So that 6 hours a week. Yes, it will include attending our teaching sessions online, and, you know, the independent study and the project work, but some of that project work, and the assignments and assessments that they're doing, hopefully, and it's better if it is, is real work that the Charity wants them to be delivering. So there is some crossover there between

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Laura Thurlow BEM: it being learning, but also real work that they want them to deliver.

Piers Townley: William, I guess most charities, and you would think most CEO's or heads of departments would see the benefit of that time being given over as well. If they're thinking strategically long term in their employees, it's going to benefit everyone, isn't it?

Laura Thurlow BEM: Over a period of time, absolutely, yeah. And I think that once a Charity has had their first apprentice, they then become really passionate. That's what I see about apprenticeships.

Piers Townley: Everyone wants one.

Laura Thurlow BEM: It might be that the line manager's done it and then they want their team to, or the other way around and then. Yeah, absolutely. Everybody wants to get involved, but until you have the experience, it's quite hard to know, what it kind of looks like.

New Government apprenticeship review

Tim Beynon: So, yeah, so apprenticeships have been around for a long time, but we've got a new government sat in Westminster today. Has that changed the landscape at all? Has that changed things?

Laura Thurlow BEM: I think it will definitely be changing the landscape going forwards, hopefully positively for apprenticeships. I think that's the signs, basically. There's a lot of review underway at the moment and there will definitely be some changes. We hope that they will be positive ones. We believe that they're going to be positive ones going forwards, but that kind of review, I guess, is underway at this point. So we keep going, plugging away and waiting for the updates to come through. But I know that the government is very, very positive about apprenticeships and the way that they can develop the skills that, all sectors need at this time.

Apprenticeships in demand

Piers Townley: Are there any types of apprenticeships that you're seeing more demand for, Laura, that is our charities seeing that there's an element of what they do, whatever teams it might be that there's a gap that needs to be filled. Is there a theme of which ones?

Laura Thurlow BEM: Yeah, I think that marketing, particularly our digital marketing courses, we've seen an increased uptake in. What I feel really positive about is for a number of years we've been running a policy apprenticeship and we actually have the contract to work with a number of government departments on that. So we've basically been training, public, policy officers for a number of years. but more recently there's been a review of that apprenticeship, and we've been passionate and part of that, trailblazer group to advocate, that it be also relevant for those that are working in the Charity sector, potentially the corporate sector, who are, working to advocate for changes to public policy. And so that change has been approved and so our policy apprenticeship is now, 100% relevant for charity sector policy and advocacy, kind of campaigning teams to benefit from. So I'm starting to see, as I'm talking to charities, more take up of that because it is entirely relevant for them, which is great.

Piers Townley: Yeah, that's really interesting. The Brain Tumour Charity and our policy team has expanded this last year and a half. Yeah, it has expanded and obviously with a change of government, I think we're finding a lot of medical research charities are jumping on the fact that it's a change of government, they may get more, space in the room, more seats at the table to get themselves in front of policy. So there's definitely from our point of view, it definitely becoming a much more prominent part of what we do.

Tim Beynon: And then I'd also say as well, Piers, just reflecting on what you were saying, Laura, about marketing and digital being popular. That reflects what we've heard on the show before from digital experts and AI experts who are saying that those are areas that charities are looking to upskill in at the moment. So that's quite timely that there's a popular in terms of apprenticeships as well.

Laura Thurlow BEM: Yeah, I was listening to your last episode with Maya, wasn't it, that you were interviewing? And I just resonated with a lot of what she was saying, that there are these skills gaps in the sector and I think she was also said that charities have very limited and decreasing training budgets. she also mentioned about the time that it takes to spend with a person who's coming in that doesn't have experience in the role and that even though charities with the best will in the world, they might want to take people in, they're worried about that time that needs to be spent with people. And so all of that kind of had me nodding and I was thinking, well, apprenticeships, ah, are, ah, the answer of course to fill the skills gap. the fact that it's government funded means you don't have to draw down from your training budget, as limited as it might be. And as I said earlier, you're outsourcing to your training provider that time spent with your candidate in terms of training them in the fundamentals of what they're going to be doing. Of course the line manager will then be bidding that in terms of what it looks like here and how we do it within our particular charity. But yeah, that tied in with what was happening in your previous episode.

Piers Townley: Just rewinding the clock, just back a little bit. Laura, your own time as a chief executive, how did you go about training your own staff? Some examples and some anecdotes from your time as CEO.

Laura Thurlow BEM: M great example. I guess if I think about our marketing team, we were really privileged. We're a reasonably small charity, but probably punching above our weight a bit in some areas. And we had a fantastic trustee at the time that I was there, who was working in a household brand, named corporate. And we had the privilege of spending some time with her as an entire team that were working on the kind of marketing side of things and so she ran, I think, what she was running for these large brands, national brands, you know, workshop sessions to get us to think about, our charity. And we were in a place where we were trying to rebrand and rethink about how we talk about ourselves to audiences and particularly major donors, as well as philanthropic advisors that were talking to our target audience.

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Laura Thurlow BEM: So that was incredibly, helpful. It was kind of, I guess it was in house. but we brought in that external expertise, which was pro bono at the time, which was absolutely amazing. But I did, interestingly, I got back in touch with the Charity that I was, that after I'd left and started a JGA training provider to say, oh, you know, you know, so and so who we were looking for something for. This could be perfect. And obviously, you know, for future recruitment, you know, that these are apprenticeships, are an opportunity for them, because, as I say, it just wasn't on the radar at the time in terms of that individual, individual development and investing in individuals that you want to sort of see thrive and grow within their roles. Apprenticeships wasn't kind of on the radar at all. It was more the short term courses, you know, the half day, one day, two day courses that you can afford with the training budget, and not so much to the longer term investment, unfortunately.

Piers Townley: William. But that's really interesting, isn't it? Using your skillsets or the contacts of your trustees, or your senior SLt teams, and borrowing perhaps from the commercial, the corporate world, ideas that come cross over to the third sector. the podcast has dealt with this in several episodes where it's like, oh, yes, we need to learn and use expertise from the commercial and the corporate sectors, because that's what will benefit the charities going forward. It's really interesting, that point that you've made.

Tim Beynon: Something I'd like to see more of, I think, is charities taking advantage of that expertise that sits on their boards, because quite often charities have fantastic boards of very talented people. But, are they tapping into them enough? Are they actually using that expertise as much as they could do to help their staff and to help their people? so that's perhaps something we can pick up on a later show.

Laura's charity career

Piers. Laura, I'm fascinated to drill down a little bit into your career, if you don't mind. I must admit I did go on LinkedIn and have a look, ah, at your journey and your life as a chief executive, and fascinated to know a bit more about that in terms of you were with that charity for quite a long time. And you put you in a number of different roles and you sort of stepped up to chief executive. How was that? Was that daunting at all to kind of find yourself in a position where you're. Or having to make hard decisions, perhaps, that, impact the people you've worked with for many years?

Laura Thurlow BEM: Yeah, I think it was a daunting. It was a real transition for me, because, I mean, really the reality was that one day I was, in a different role in the Charity and the next day I came in, sat at the same desk in the same space, and suddenly I was chief executive. Obviously there was a time of preparation, and the great thing was that because I'd worked in that Charity for so many years, I had a vision for, or some of the things that I could see could be changed and developed and grown. There were some harder decisions that had to be made and obviously those were always tricky, aren't they, and challenging. But I think for me it was more. The challenge for me was that transition in my mind that I'm now in this new role because I'd been there for such a time. I did benefit, actually, in talking again about pro bono. I had a wonderful lady who, is a coach, and she provided me with some sessions pro bono in that really important time in just those first few weeks. And so we talked through a lot of these things, and she really kind of empowered me to make some changes. But mainly the biggest change was my own, kind of mindset, I suppose, and stepping up into that role. I also had a really supportive chair at the time and we'd worked together for a number of years, so he was really helpful and supportive in that transition time too. And as well, you know, obviously the other trustees and stuff, I think that's.

Tim Beynon: The important point about the fact that whatever your role, you could always do with a mentor, couldn't you? It's always good to have somebody you can bounce off or somebody who you can lean on to, give you that support.

Laura Thurlow BEM: Yeah, I found it really, really beneficial. I think I've had, in various stages in my career. I've had sort of a mentor and that was obviously particularly more of a coach. Although she did step into mentor. She kind of let me know when she was about to do it and make a suggestion and cheque that I was okay with it. but, yeah, I would advocate that. It's been hugely beneficial for me and I'd recommend it to others if you can benefit from that.

Honoured by the Queen

Tim Beynon: Fantastic. And also, you are Laura Thurlow Bem. if I'm correct, in what I read. So you were honoured in the Queen's New year's honours. Listen, in 2022. Tell us a little bit about that. It's blow your own trumpet time.

Laura Thurlow BEM: yeah, so that was in connection with the community foundation for Surrey. so the trustees there very kindly, and I received it after I'd stepped away from the Charity. But, it was particularly to do with the work the Charity did, through Covid. essentially, we were all immediately working from home, but we actually doubled our income and we doubled, our outgoing grant making in order to make. Make sure that the community groups and charities that were stepping in at that really crucial time had the funding that they needed. We transformed most of our processes so we could get that to them really, really promptly and help them and make it less restricted and all of those things. So it was a crazy busy time for us as a staff team. and I think the trustees just sort of recognised that exceptional, time, which was a huge surprise, to be honest. When I received, in the envelope with all the confidential stamp and everything else coming from the queen.

Tim Beynon: Was it a trip to Buckingham palace?

Laura Thurlow BEM: It was, The investiture is held locally, so it's by the high sheriff. But my husband and I did get to go to Buckingham palace for a garden party as part of it. So that was lovely.

Piers Townley: Excellent.

Tim Beynon: Fantastic. Well, congratulations.

00:35:00

Piers Townley: Just quickly back to your helicopter view of the sector. Laura, are you finding that the pressure on, senior leadership teams and CEO's is increasing or has increased with the likes of cost of living, changing fundraising landscape and so on? Is this pressure becoming more intense for those sort of roles?

Laura Thurlow BEM: I think from what I see, that definitely feels to be the case, yeah. I think there are, charities that I'm talking to that are really, really keen to drive things forward, such as apprenticeships, but I'm sure lots of other things in their roles and it just feels that sometimes the pressure gets too much and with all the best intent in the world, they haven't made the progress at the. They've wanted to and, yeah, so I think there are senior leaders that I talk to, that are facing those challenges. it doesn't go away, does it? Unfortunately, no.

Piers Townley: No. And then I suppose, depending on the size of your charity, that can trickle down as well. So I think it's something that all teams and all heads of and senior, extended senior leaderships need to be aware of, don't they, to monitor that and make sure that that is being managed effectively.

Laura Thurlow BEM: Yeah. And I think there's a really positive focus, on the other side of things, on kind of employee well being, which maybe wasn't there before when we hadn't face these unprecedented, as people like to say, pressures, upon us as staff teams. So I think there is a positive coming out of it from that view of things. but, yeah, I think it definitely continues to be challenging times, isn't it?

How can charity's apply for apprenticeships?

Piers Townley: And here's the $6 million question, Laura. What's the first thing that a Charity should do if it wants to apply for an apprenticeship training course?

Laura Thurlow BEM: Oh, brilliant. $6 million question. the first thing to do, I guess, is, find out more. There is a fantastic, website which is currently the Institute for Apprenticeships and Technical Education. Ifate for short, if a T E. And when I mentioned that there are over 700 different apprenticeships, that's a great place to start because there's a little box you can select called apprenticeship search, and you can literally type in any job title or area, you know, field of work, and find out if there is an apprenticeship, in that area. You can also then, if there is one, and there generally will be something, you can then on the right hand column them, find training providers that are offering that particular apprenticeship. obviously, I would advocate for anyone in marketing and fundraising and the other areas that we provide to talk to me first off, and a lot of the conversations, to be honest, that I have, particularly with charities where this is the first apprenticeship they've taken on, I can kind of demystify, debunk, some of the challenges. There are some things that have to be done because you have to be eligible for the government funding, you have to sign up for an online, account with the government's apprenticeship service. So there are some technicalities, but I can walk people through all of that and I'm very happy to do that.

Piers Townley: William, just fantastic. And I think for a lot of charities, a lot of individuals, probably an untapped or an unknown about resource as well. I mean, it's a great asset to the sector generally.

Laura Thurlow BEM: Absolutely, yeah.

Tim Beynon: Thank you, Laura. We will make sure we put your contact details, if that's okay. We'll put your contact details in the show notes together with the website address, as well. So anybody who wants to get in touch with you directly can do. So just head to the show notes and all the contact details will be there. But Laura, thank you hugely for your time today. It's been fantastic. Lovely to meet you. And really fascinating subject.

Laura Thurlow BEM: Thank you. Thanks very much for having me.

Superstars of the week

Piers Townley: In each episode of the Charity show, we want to celebrate our, sector superstars, those incredible people working, volunteering and fundraising across our sector. And you can nominate your deserving colleagues, volunteers or fundraisers us. Just email us at thecharityshowpodmail ah.com or get in touch through the links in the show notes. You can even send us a voice message that we can play out in the next episode. Who's your superstar this week? Tim?

Tim Beynon: So I've chosen someone a bit special. This is also someone that struck a personal note with me as a cancer survivor myself, and someone who lent heavily on a cancer Charity when I was, going through what I went through. I can relate very much to this story. So Doctor Catherine Poynter was given a wig by the little princess Trust when she had leukaemia in 2009. And she has since gone on to become a cancer researcher at, ah, the experimental cancer medicine centre ECMC in Southampton, which is funded by the Hereford based trust. So basically, the trust that supported her is now supporting her research, and she's helping to defeat cancer. So there's a lovely sort of full circle, that story, I think. And I think it just really illustrates, the power of Charity to make a difference to people and how closely impacted people are by Charity. and I just thought it was really moving that this Charity that helped this, lady out when she was going through leukaemia as a child, is now supporting her professionally in her work, and that work is helping to defeat the thing that she was supported for in the first place. So amazing, for doctor Catherine Poynter and the little princess trust, hats off to you guys as well. Amazing story. Very powerful stuff.

Piers Townley: Yeah. Big shout out, the little princess

00:40:00

Piers Townley: Trust. We know that also some of the work that we do is fantastic. organisation I really admire and I'd like to do a shout out is anyone who decides to swim the english channel, let alone it being allegedly one of the busiest shipping lanes in the world. I can't imagine doing that for that amount of time. But a team of five swimmers is taking on English Channel challenge, and as a relay, they're going to be swimming across it. To raise money for charities that helped two of their children the group dumped. The Gloucester dippers consists of Jill Ben Slater, Dan Natman, Gary Young and rich Molly, all who live in the city. And they're raising money for two charities, the Anthony Nolan UK and young Gloucestershire. After two of the families were helped with their own maratranspiration and the eating disorder anorexia. And I think as this episode goes out on, the 30 September is when they have their attempt. So all the best of luck and anyone else we see this challenge come up quite a lot. So anyone else deciding to put lard all over their body and swim the english channels, you have our respect. It's a hell of a thing to do.

Tim Beynon: Geez, man, I can't swim. I can swim, but, you know, I struggled to do more than two or three lengths of the swimming pool. I couldn't imagine doing the English Channel.

Piers Townley: So, yeah, you've done a marathon, Tim. You'd walk it. Would not walk it, you'd paddle it.

Tim Beynon: No, you're not seeing me swim being. Yeah, my kids routinely laugh at me whenever I go into water. So there we go.

Piers Townley: So that's it for episode ten. And thanks to law for shining a light. And m some of the opportunities we might be missing out on in terms of training and development, there might still be time for me to get that master's degree after Alton. And we've got lots coming up in the next few weeks, too.

Tim Beynon: Absolutely. We're going to be going behind the scenes of a BBC, radio four sitcom about the third sector. If you've not listened to it yet, it's called do gooders, and we'll find out a bit more about that in an upcoming episode. We'll also be finding out about challenge events, meeting some young ambassadors, and asking whether it's time for charities to step away from x.

Piers Townley: Sounds good. And, don't forget you can be part of the show, too. Just send us your voice messages or get in touch through any of the links in the show notes to share your stories and tell us what you'd like us to cover.

Tim Beynon: And you can use those same links as well to tell us about your superstar fundraisers, volunteers, or colleagues as well. The show notes have got all the details, so head there and let us know who you want to nominate.

Piers Townley: And in the meantime, please follow or subscribe to us on your usual podcast platform and leave us a review, both of which will help others to find the show.

Tim Beynon: So that's it for this episode. Thanks for listening. Take care and, we'll see you soon.

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